«

[Tulac]

Originally posted by Anubis@Mar 20 2006, 09:53 PM
It all depends on what marked are you talking about.

Here N64 was well sucesfull console. Used N64 games still sell, as well some Dreamcast games (mostly sports titles). There is no Mega CD and very rare you can find MegaDrive games.

Well IMO the global sales results speak for themselves...
And you said yourself it's not only the piracy that caused Sega to stop making games, and again the first link at the start of the topic is the best example on how piracy is affecting sales...

[troop18546]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 20 2006, 07:46 PM
Still taking advantage of somebodie's work without compensating them can in NO way be declared "morally correct".

Forgive me for saying this, but i.eg.:
1) The developer made a game.
2) Some bought it - some didn't.
3) Some who did buy it - made copies and flooded the internet with them.
4) Others downloaded the copies and played the game.

What? I pay for the internet and what's on it - I can download (my policy). I'm not in any way depriving the makers of the game of any money, cause I didn't buy it anyway (what they don't know - won't hurt them). The ones who are stealing money are the ones who put them on i-net in the first place, cause some of us downloaded the stuff without paying the developers. They lost money cause we weren't stupid enough to spend money on a thing we could get free, from a person, who VIOLATED their policy of making ILLEGAL copies of the product.

Who's fault is that?
Tisk tisk tisk, Chuck... :whistle:

P.S. About those cracks and no-cd's for games:

People still believe it's illegal, why? A guy made a crack so that he wouldn't have to stick the CD in the rom everytime you wanna play. Is there a problem with that? No. Ofcourse not. People blame crackers for sh*t like: "oh noes, they can now use our software by cracking und not paying for our sh*t! H3lp!". Big woof. Send people who USE the cracks for these purposes to jail. Jeeeeeez. :whistle:

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by troop18546@Mar 20 2006, 09:24 PM
Who's fault is that?

Rrrright. Those stupid designers should KNOW that this world is full of greedy parasites that will take any advantage off others they can get and that certainly won't pay for anything they can get for free as well... be it legal or not. I bow to your wisdom.

Maybe we should postbone this discussion until most of you "pro-Warez"-people actually have to make money yourselves...

[troop18546]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 20 2006, 10:39 PM
I bow to your wisdom.*

You should, cause you know I'm right.
BTW, when I start bussiness I'll take my own precautions:

Like adding a line in the user licence, like this:

421. Illegal copying - death (no kidding).

P.S. Developers shouldn't be stupid, they can use unhackable stuff like StarForce and not lose a cent.
BTW#2 - A penny here and a penny there to a multibillion dollar project shouldn't make a very BIG difference.

this world is full of greedy parasites

You callin' me a parasite? :eeeeeh:

[plix]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 20 2006, 12:46 PM
I'd only like to know if you would still argue in favour of "the law" then (something you even NOW only do, when it benefits your side of the arguement... if it doesn't, then all of a sudden "the law" just seems to be an arbitrary piece of BS... how totally "un-universalizing moral values" of you...).

Excuse me? You started trying to defend your position with the law and I responded in kind. I'm not defending my position with the law, I'm attacking yours. How many times have I said so far in this thread that I think current copyright law is wildly unjust?

Your staw-men arguments are starting to stale.

Originally posted by Chuck the plant+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chuck the plant)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Wrong, dude. At least here in germany, a few years ago the law actually has been changed to make it a crime. You can get up to five years in jail for it. D'uh.[/b]

There are criminal statutes which pertain to the sale of pirated goods, but as I'm not familiar with German law specifically (primarily because I don't speak German) I'm limited to an understanding of EU directives. Either way, trying to make a global argument based solely upon law is never going to work because there is no such thing as global copyright law (even the Berne Convention isn't global yet).

<!--QuoteBegin-Chuck the plant
Granted, the final outcome of stealing a car and stealing intellectual property is not TOTALLY the same. Still taking advantage of somebodie's work without compensating them can in NO way be declared "morally correct".[/quote]
How does duplicating and enjoying someone else's work in any way do harm to them except in the fiscal sense? Oh, except that the fiscal sense is entirely predicated upon an arbitary right-to-exclusive-ownership granted to them legally. When I create a copy of a game or painting or book I'm the one investing all the effort and the duplicate is my creation. The rationale behind protecting the original creator is to benefit them in future efforts, not to deny me the ability to enjoy their work. Further, in doing so, I am most certainly not denying the creator the use, enjoyment, or ownership of the work (as is the case with theft).

Originally posted by Chuck the plant+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chuck the plant)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And if some people would not have bought the software, anyway: Why do they feel the need to copy it illegally then, anyway? As I said, either you want it, or you don't. If you don't, why still get it? Just because you can?[/b]

Have you ever played a freeware game that you wouldn't have purchased if it wasn't available for free? Same idea here. See my original comment for clarification of why this distinguishes copyright infringement from theft.

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@
Those stupid designers should KNOW that this world is full of greedy parasites that will take any advantage off others they can get and that certainly won't pay for anything they can get for free as well... be it legal or not.

Yeah, those OSS coders should really reconsider their position. You should go tell IBM and RedHat that continuing to make products available for free will certainly bankrupt them.

<!--QuoteBegin-Chuck the plant
Maybe we should postbone this discussion until most of you "pro-Warez"-people actually have to make money yourselves...[/quote]
I'm not pro-warez, nor have I ever been. I do believe in copyright, though I think it needs to be reformed (along with patents). This is a terrible attempt at an out of the argument.

As an aside, it's also quite an assumption that I don't have to "make money [myself]" -- I've actually been a professional programmer for nearly a decade. Cut it out with the personal attacks and flames.

Originally posted by troop18546
Developers shouldn't be stupid, they can use unhackable stuff like StarForce and not lose a cent.

Except that StarForce has been circumvented. There is no magic answer and there never will be -- anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

[a1s]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 20 2006, 11:39 PM
Maybe we should postbone this discussion until most of you "pro-Warez"-people actually have to make money yourselves...

I believe that would make us even less willing to spend needlessly.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Pro-Warez = Pro-Dips

Go make some money freeloaders, if you can't, Too Bad, if you can't find the games, TOO BAD, and you know, whatever you reason is, TOO FREAKIN' BAD.

Despite all the technicalities, it's illegal, capische? That means, no-no, that means "Hey, get the hell out of here" cause you know what, I don't care what your reason is, unless that reason may be you lying upon your deathbed, your last wish is to play a game, and the only way to get it before you die is from illegally downloading, then fine.

But there is no other conceivable reason. Yeesh, go steal from some old guy's pockets then go buy the game, at least you won't be crapping on your nation's economy then wiseguy.

Oh, and that was a general statement, not directed to anybody specificaly, m-kay?

[Tulac]

You haven't read through much of this thread have you?

There are 2 statements:

1. Copy protection is useless, people who will pirate will pirate anyway, and the prove that the game on the link no.1 was sold so well is a proof...
2. Copyright laws are badly done (this one is Plix's I know little about it)

[plix]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Mar 20 2006, 05:04 PM
Despite all the technicalities, it's illegal, capische? That means, no-no, that means "Hey, get the hell out of here" cause you know what, I don't care what your reason is, unless that reason may be you lying upon your deathbed, your last wish is to play a game, and the only way to get it before you die is from illegally downloading, then fine.

Thanks for that wonderful contribution to the discussion as I don't think any of us realized that piracy was illegal. *cough*

This is a discussion about morality and the law; just saying "it's illegal" is defeatist. It's beyond comprehension how many unjust and wacky laws existed for centuries before being repealed. Remember slavery? It still exists in some areas. Segregation and apartheid? At one time legal. The list goes on and on. Just saying "it's illegal" is an enormous cop-out and failing to question authority is what leads to dictatorships and totalitarianism.

It's one thing if you're expressing your belief, but to expect everyone else to just go "oh, I guess you must be right because you said so" is *dirty word* inane.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Well, um, the morality of it would be wrong too, wouldn't it?
Isn't that why it's illegal in most places?

And I do think copy-right law is as good as it stands, reliable supply from large demand is better than quantitive supply from large demand.

What I'm saying is that... uh, you know.

If there's too many people cashing in on one idea, then there will be no reliable use of that idea, meaning, that if just EVERYONE made a certain product using the same technology, there really won't be one reliable source, cause guess what, everyone is doing the same thing, there are too many, it'll just become a big mess, complaints, horrid customer service calls and boo-rah.

But copyrighting absolutly useless things is beyond me.

@ I did read the rest of the topic but you people need to talk like people, cause I guess... well that does seem a bit lost on these forums :P.