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Old 21-03-2020, 10:09 AM   #1
Japo
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Default Coronavirus

Yes, let's discuss it here too...

This is the best article analyzing different possible policy responses:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-be9337092b56

I have shared it everywhere on social media. I believe it's important, given the ideas that are circulating, that even some governments such as UK and Holland are considering. I am thinking I should even post it on the front page news. What do you think?

EDIT: For an idea of what the virus causes when spread, watch this video from Italy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J60fQr0GWo
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Old 21-03-2020, 10:33 AM   #2
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It is overexcited garbage. It's not actualy dangerous, and from the political/economical side could solve major problems.


Basic higieny and suggestion to not leave home/avoid contact for elderly (and to infants, possibly pregnants) would be more than enough.


Quarantine for the whole population is nonsense, and won't achieve anything but economical collapse.


I also hoped at least gaming sites would avoid this annoying, overabused topic, which is extremly abused by theocratic parties and regimes.
The only good thing in the whole thing is, it revealed there are, and never were conservaties in democracies. It is a wr between the oudated religious fascists, and the sane democratic people, later being the only capable upholding civilisation in the long terms. The others ("right wing","conservatives", "christians"and other religious parties etc.) deny SCIENCE in general (say the Earth is flat, vaccination does not cure anything but makes everyone authistic, climate change is a work of God and can and should nothing to be done with it, AND nuke everyone, and evolution is not true, and gays and atheists shall be exterminated, and so on).


There. Now you got this. Happy now?
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Old 21-03-2020, 12:02 PM   #3
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Debate is welcome. However I would encourage to keep it within the domain of public health or science, and not mix it with politics, however related it may be. Let me remind that political or religious discussions by themselves are unwelcome in the forums because sadly they are always flame bait.
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Old 21-03-2020, 12:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Japo View Post
Debate is welcome. However I would encourage to keep it within the domain of public health or science, and not mix it with politics, however related it may be. Let me remind that political or religious discussions by themselves are unwelcome in the forums because sadly they are always flame bait.

The health and science issue is, THIS VIRUS IS NOT AN EPIDEMIC. Itis not the Yellow Fewer, not the Bubonic Plague, it is NOT DANGEROUS TO SOCIETY.


They ACT like it is, what put this whole thing instead of rational, and scientific reaction to purely political field.
This makes THE WHOLE CORONA VIRUS ISSUE PURELY POLITICAL. And imagine whose politics it is? Yes, you got it, THE RELIGIOUS PARTIES POLITICS.


There's nothing to discuss here, BECAUSE THERE IS NO REAL DANGER. They pretend there is to strip you from your rights, make you believe statariums, soldiers on the street is for your own sake, and science can not be trusted, you must turn to their bronze-age god - it is NOT.
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Old 21-03-2020, 01:57 PM   #5
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J60fQr0GWo

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Old 21-03-2020, 03:55 PM   #6
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It is overexcited garbage. It's not actualy dangerous, and from the political/economical side could solve major problems.
Italian here, 20 dead at hour in italy
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Old 21-03-2020, 05:02 PM   #7
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One important question:
How many people died because the catched coronavirus, but there was no other diseases?

In Poland official information which is given to the people tells that all people that died "because of coronavirus" had other illness.

Corona virus is like hiv. When you are in good shape you can have it and don't even know that.

Problem starts when you catch some disease. Suddenly it can end to you with death.

Still... did we had Pandemia and closed people when AIDS was discovered?

It's very hard to say what should be better to be done. What is perfectly sure - World Economics will be totally fucked up after this.
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Old 21-03-2020, 05:24 PM   #8
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Corona virus is like hiv. When you are in good shape you can have it and don't even know that.
It's not.

Indeed AIDS suppresses your immune system, and it's some other disease that kills you. Covid operates nothing like that, but it attacks your respiratory system, just like flus or other corona viruses such as common colds, SARS, MERS etc (in increasing order of lethality). Indeed many cases survive or don't even develop serious symptoms, but just being healthy and young is no guarantee of this. In some cases, just like it happened with the Spanish Flu (not really from Spain) in 1918, death is caused by an overreaction of your immune system killing other organs besides your lungs, which were never attacked by the virus.

Quote:
Still... did we had Pandemia and closed people when AIDS was discovered?
We should have, but it was late because AIDS was discovered when it had arrived in the USA, while it had come many years ago from Africa, where no one had paid attention or care to it. We could have gotten rid of it, and it would have been much easier than covid, because it spreads only by sexual contact. Whereas covid spreads extremely easily, both by people who suffer severe illness from it and by people who suffer little or nothing. Fortunately today the outbreak was detected *and contained* at the source in Wuhan, and we have all the information, so we have the chance to contain it, the question is which countries will and which will be afflicted.

Don't think that what's happening in Italy is the worst that can happen: over there the spread has just started (0.06% of the population) and they will probably succeed in containing it eventually.

Quote:
In Poland official information which is given to the people tells that all people that died "because of coronavirus" had other illness.
Different countries have different levels of preparedness, knowledge and will to fight the virus. East Asia is obviously at the top, simply because they learned from SARS-1. The most sensible thing is to listen to the World Health Organization, if your local cacique contradicts it. Here in Holland the government started claiming that people without symptoms would not spread the virus even if they have it, which has since been proven terribly wrong; so they chose to allow tourists from Italy to return without quarantine; and that's the only reason we have an outbreak with 3,600 detected and many more undetected.

After this the Dutch government liked to imply that only or mostly old or previously sick people are vulnerable: every daily update said the age bracket of people killed by covid in Holland: the last three days it was between 63 and 95. Just today they have stopped informing of the ages, so you can bet your ass that someone younger than 63 or 60 died yesterday; and he or she must have been severely ill for many days before. The spread is still exponential. In Italy, Seattle USA, here in Holland and in other places, old people with severe covid are being not admitted into intensive care, basically leaving them for dead, because there are not enough beds or respirators, and they decide to give them to people with more chances. But if those younger, healthier people require intensive care in the first place, it's because they're severe and will die without it.
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Old 21-03-2020, 08:12 PM   #9
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Italian here, 20 dead at hour in italy

And all of them 80+, and addto that that Italy was not flattened like 1000 years ago, what makes the whole place ideal for outbreakes.


But in the end it makes the case irrelevant.
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Old 22-03-2020, 12:50 PM   #10
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There's nothing to discuss here, BECAUSE THERE IS NO REAL DANGER
About 0.5% of people between the ages 15-64 who have caught the virus, have died. Of course, the percentage is the higher the older the people are but even for young adults it's around 0.2%.

There are ~4,000,000,000 people in the world aged 15-64.
Let's say 1/10th of those people get the virus: 400,000,000 people.
So, 0.5% * 400,000,000 = 2,000,000 dead

2 million people dead, and you say "THERE IS NO REAL DANGER"

Also, those numbers could be even worse but they can also be a lot lower.
Still, taking some precautions is the smart thing to do. If we did nothing, then we really could have 400,000,000 people who get the virus.
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