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[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

Your point is, Spectre?
...
So? I'm lying, or you're useless?

My point is: as you have dramatically different experience from the same game, you are doing something wrong or miss something. I have no idea what, unfortunately, because nothing in your description indicates this.

And no, it's not random only. Or is _especially_ bad random for you. Because I played only once in last year or so, and got better results than yours. And I consistently got such results in past. I usually cannot win whole game in one run (or twenty, in that matter), but it's normal for me - I am learning, and (when I played) if one time was "up to L7", second most probably will be "up to L8".

I reinstalled this piece of garbage, just for you!

Thank you. I am appreciating it.

Well, I'll give some comments, even if I feel that you'll never run this game again. Just in case.

spawned a slot-mashine, which did nothing.

Um, every slot-machine does _something_. As I vaguely remember, there is one that collect money (even between runs) and do nothing else until threshold reached, but even it can be blown. And I recommend to do that with every machine - at least those who can give bombs back.

2nd run: 1st room had portal in inaccessible area (1 hex free space before thatpile of shit which every second spawns other pile of craps. Obviously, I ended up dead.

Um, can you explain? Portal? Inaccessible area?

Gives a pill, which we all know worth squat (seems blue ones refill health).

All pills are random between runs (but consistent in run). I.e. if you found that blue is good - it guaranteed to be good only this run.

- Azazel: -1/2/3. This sounds awesome: you need tocollect 2 hearts before the game starts, because youare already dead,so start is game over? By the looks of it, that's whatthe game tells! Well, the character is a piece of garbage, that's for sure. No attack skill, no life, only those grey hearts which can not be refilled. Wasn't worth unlocking this one eihter.

You answered it yourself. He hasn't "true" life, only temporary hearts instead. I don't remember - are his hearts blue or black? If later, they will hurt enemies for each heart break (with correspondent animation). Also, he have attack not worse than Isaac (if attack is 2, otherwise it's 1.5 times better).

And now one of my health is white. Dunno whatthatmeans, but probably no good. I betmy max HPjust got lowered by it, and won't get it back.

You are teasing, right? Actually, white heart is semi-permanent _extra_ heart. It will became permanent, if you'll live to the end of level and not lost it. (If you'll lost _half_ of it, it will regenerate to full white again).

Checked the rest of your runs. Looks quite ordinary, if you don't know what items does (like tarot) and have a little experience in dodging enemy shots. *shrug* But you are suspiciously absent of upgrades/keys/bombs now and again. Huh. I seen such thing once or twice, but not so often, and usually issue self-fixed after first or second boss.

Did you search for chests/treasures? There are quite many money under fires and dung (that can be destroyed with shots) and items can be got from blown slot-machines. There are also _special_ treasure stones that guaranteed to give you something (not necessary useful though) - you'll spot them if you'll look for them. And if you blow stone near chasm - from opposite side - you'll get the one square of bridge over chasm. But all of these are trivial, and you, most probably, found it all by yourself.

So I can only sorry that game appears so much not-fun for you. Maybe, simply "not yours" type. *shrug*

[twillight]

1) NONE knows what the items do, as they are all just random shapeless blobs, and there are a multitude of 'em.


2) portal. You know? fokin' force of nature thing. Spanws infinite number of enemies. Can't get in melee range because of the spawns. Many times can't hit from range 'cause passage is blocked. Some rotating whirlwind-from-above icon.


3) There are no blue hearts. There are only red, grey, and black hearts, black and grey being the exact same as far as I can tell.


4) Azazel actualy has ZERO (red) hearts, and 3 unregeneratable hearts. That-1 is misleading to the merrit you can start the game. Not much else though of course.


5) ye. I usualy did this method:
- look for chest
- grumbled, because have no key, and chest-room's door is locked
- look for boss' room
- die because some stupid mob, and because the item from the chest ruined my already weak attacking skills



6) fires and dung have 1 coin with like 1:10 chance. I'd need 55+ coins in one run to unlock a character, and 15-25 per level to buy stuff in the shop. I usualy die on lvl 3-4 with 3-15 coins.


7) this pile of shit is NOT a game. It is a half-assed product of a shithead, whose only distinction from people like katheleen kennedy that he/they don't call their customers racist-sexist trash.


8) fun fact is, I actualy won exactly 1 time. Of course it doesn't mean I won the game, as every time you win your nose is pushed in a tray of diarreha and says you only did the first X room, there are 13 minus the times you won rooms still unlocked you fokin looser, with winning streak -56.
The way I won was thanks to some fetus which provided a shitload of pills, and they were with a single exception good or neutral effect. If you could, like select what you start with, or have a shop where you can sell your garbage and buy whatever you want, you know, an ingame shop...
But all you have is shitty slot-machines which take away all your money and give nothing back. Fok gambling.


QUESTION: why none discusses Isaac's twin? Or was it a simple sibling? I suspect was a twin. Not sure on the gender department though (possibly female), but I suspect its corpse is ???. And it probably died of cancer. Maybe born dead? Maybe it was never a baby but a tumor, what only turned out to be at the birth?

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

1) NONE knows what the items do, as they are all just random shapeless blobs, and there are a multitude of 'em.

Wrong. Unlike conventional roguelike, all your items, with one exception, does the same thing each time. This exception is pills - you need to ignore them or gamble, of course. Of course, _you_, as player, don't know what all this items does initially, and presumably it's enticed you to learn it all by experience. It works for me. It seems, it doesn't work for you. Sorry.

2) portal. You know? fokin' force of nature thing. Spanws infinite number of enemies. Can't get in melee range because of the spawns. Many times can't hit from range 'cause passage is blocked. Some rotating whirlwind-from-above icon.

Huh. Seems, it's latest addition. I extensively played first part, and moderately - second. Didn't play DLCs at all, because I was quite tired of the game already at the time. There wasn't any portals before. %) Ok, I'll look forward to see it.

3) There are no blue hearts. There are only red, grey, and black hearts, black and grey being the exact same as far as I can tell.

Matter of perception. I percept your grey as metallic blue. Same thing, of course.

As I said, they are different in matter of it's removing. Grey are simply shields. Black are explosive shields that hurts enemies each time they broke.

4) Azazel actualy has ZERO (red) hearts, and 3 unregeneratable hearts. That-1 is misleading to the merrit you can start the game. Not much else though of course.

I believe, it's really -1 (didn't pay attention though). In matter that first time when you'll add extra hearts, it will be zero for first one, and +1 heart only when you'll get +2. Wild guess though.

5) ye. I usualy did this method:
- look for chest
- grumbled, because have no key, and chest-room's door is locked
- look for boss' room
- die because some stupid mob, and because the item from the chest ruined my already weak attacking skills

Um, there are several types of chests: only gold requires keys, all others are not.

6) fires and dung have 1 coin with like 1:10 chance. I'd need 55+ coins in one run to unlock a character, and 15-25 per level to buy stuff in the shop. I usualy die on lvl 3-4 with 3-15 coins.

Actually, there are three types of coins, for 1, 5 and 10 gold per coin. While last ones are quite rare, +5 was fairly common for me.

7) this pile of shit is NOT a game. It is a half-assed product of a shithead, whose only distinction from people like katheleen kennedy that he/they don't call their customers racist-sexist trash.

As for me, it's quite standard roguelike game, with simpler and more transparent rule than usual though. I used to games where _everything_ you find is random.

I believe, you perceive it wrong. This game intended to entice exploring and research. This sort of games (roguelikes, I mean) assumes that you like diversity, like to explore new things and receive new knowledge. And like to experiment too. If you are not, well, you always can have Wiki open and consult it with every found item - or not play, if it's not fun for you.

If you still want to give this game it's chance, I can add another advice not clearly mentioned: experiment. Blow up everything suspicious, from shopkeepers to unusual stones. There are also secret rooms here and there, discovered by some items or blowing at the possible exit. Check special rooms and unusual traps (sacrifice room come in the mind, with spikes in the center and nothing more). It's expected to die a lot initially, until you learn the rules - and it's expected to be fairly easy then. Well, at least initially.

QUESTION: why none discusses Isaac's twin? Or was it a simple sibling?

As first game shown, there are _a lot_ of possible siblings. Of course, all maze looks like Hell reference, but I imagine that all human-like abominations in cellars are mutated siblings - or Isaac incarnations from previous worlds. And one or several (I forgot friendly siblings too. Seems, Isaac was far from the first affected child of this infernal Mom.

[twillight]

1) Wrong. Because it is a halfassed pile of shit on the brim, it is not even "traditional roguelike", aka. roguelike, whereat least it'd tell what the thing does. Come to think of it, in "traditional" roguelikes the game don't tell you shit either about items, which goes back as far as Zelda, or E.T. on atari.
Those where a big bile of shit in themselves, although they had their excuses.
This garbage does not have one.


3) BLUE GREY



4) you can believe it sky-fairies, that won't make it true. I managed to find ONE health-up, and voila, red heart appeared on the character.
Funny howI know more of the game afterplaying for like 3 hours, than you.



5) you deliberatly misunderstand me, don't you? The specific chest-room. Has own icon on minimap.
Anything else is unreliable, thus doesn't play. Btw, the chest-stiuation also proves MANUAlS ARE A MUST. And they must come with the game, even if in the form of a link to a wiki, if they made a pile of shit and the info is not integrated to the game. And when the wiki goes away, the game becomes unplayable. As it happened with Dungeons of dredmor.



6) there might be a quadrillion type of coins, still doesn't help if you can't reliably find them. The game has a serious balance-issue with this, with items cost every level 15-25 coins, while a character-unlock happens at 55 coin, and in a go the player can only find 15 coins or such. It's bullshit.


7) roguelike was half-assed garbage evenat the start, and sank even lower. And people have no self-esteem if they accept this.



8)

As first game shown, there are _a lot_ of possible siblings. Of course, all maze looks like Hell reference, but I imagine that all human-like abominations in cellars are mutated siblings - or Isaac incarnations from previous worlds. And one or several (I forgot friendly siblings too. Seems, Isaac was far from the first affected child of this.

Not possible. The game is an ever-incrising pile of shit, and obviously grounds itself in metaphores.
Also, considering the intro and the endings, the game does not play in Hell.


The game starts with Mom going slowsly mad, and start abusing Isaac with neglect, lockin, physical abuse. Also the game starts Isaac entering the trapdoor as escapism, not getting killed and get there passively.
And the endings show -after we do the fightings! - stations of Isaac's life. He tries to rebel aganst Mom (various hairstyles, starting with punk), but gets stuck in the chest (symbol of his room/life under Mom) still. Then tries to just survive, but that isn't enough (peanutt-butter). So tries/considers to commit suicide - obviously not succeeding (rope). That's the point he starts to REALY rebel and turn anti-christian (horns made of hanger). But Mom puts him in his place (arm). Than he finds the pills/tries to cook drugs, failing at start (vomitting ending), but later turning an addict (syrenge). He earnes some money (whatever). Next I think is clears the reason why he meets certain themed enemies. There are enemy themes, and eachenemy is randomly spawning, thus they are not fixed, thus they don't represent any concrete thing. There are Mom-related stuff, Mom's friends-sisters related stuff (eg. laser-vaginas), Isaac-related stuff, shit-related things, tumor-rlated things, and strange things like Gemini and fetus-items which just doesn't fit otherwise.

Here the endings start to fall appart telling a consistent story (because the creator is full of shit), so just take the themes: blue thing is ???, but is followed by ...aborted fetus? Then comes the original ending 11: acceptance of Mom's visions what he wanted Isaac to be. Dunnowhatthe pirate signifies, but the female is obvious (seen in the game), the emo-hair references an earlier ending (Isaac rebelling), and the devil-form Mom's murderous fantasy. Isaac then climbs into the chest, accepting he can not escape. In the next ending he sees himself as devilform, accepts is laconicly, and does NOT climb into the chest, thus no longer protects himself, obviously hinting he'll be killed by Mom.


Rebirth added a slimmer of hope, showing Isaac turning total "evil", and going "missing". He likely ranaway from home in this version.
We also see that Mom went crazy because Dad left the family, what is only backstory. Also, the last picture idicates maybe Mom got to his senses after Isaac ran,and their life got fixed

This of course is retconned in Afterbirth(+).


In A+ Isaac is still missing, and we see his bones - this relates to Psycho's ending. We get a lot more dark imigary, and NOw we see Isaac in the afterlife/Hell, alternating also between the realworld's events. He is shown slightering away, turning grey (NOT blue), turnng into a skeleton, while the postnote still claims him missing, THEN we see Isaac walking, thus he's clearly in the afterlife finaly. Because Mom killed Isaac in the very end, dug the body in the cellar, forgot it, and claimed AND believed he's only missing.

[twillight]

Ye, that was it. Two line for brackets, and a dot for ball.


Was it good? No.
Was it a game? Yes.


Why people played it? Because this was one of the very first. You did not need some nonexistent, or imaginary friend even, you could play alone and could call it playtime.
Wasn't much, but was a start.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

3) BLUE GREY

Just for record: as for me, first is green.

And you are totally free to name this color grey:
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/stea...g?t=1487291293

I still thinks that it's metallic blue. *shrugs* Blame my perception for it. Nothing to argue, I think.

7) roguelike was half-assed garbage evenat the start, and sank even lower. And people have no self-esteem if they accept this.

Let's stop here. You are too aggressive, as for me. I don't agree with you, but it seems, it's totally useless conversation from this point and up.

Thank you for your time.

[twillight]

Ye. Proven wrong, the right answer is to run away. Your welcome.
Don't even try to explain your position, just stay at religious parrotting.



-----------





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMocFmcL1a0




This wasn't much improvement on Pong when you think about it, but damn, despite in idea it is the same game as Pong, it got the massive improvement of YOU being YOU, not some symbolic trash.
Also could go up-down towards the net, not just sideways.
And the best thing: it did not went just for top score! You could WIN! (Actualy that was very easy, lol)



By the way, my version was black&white only.


And yes, while Binding of Isaac is CRAP despite all the technical improvements, this was a GAME.

[twillight]

Simple times these were. Both games were logical puzzles, which ment finite levels. Solving the levels in themselves were the reward. As I said, simpler times, no expectations.


Both games were popular, but I liked Atomix way better.
Why?
Because that gave more leaway, more space to mistakes. With levels advancing the solutions became more complex of corse, aka. the game became harder.


Shokoban had more whatwe could call "game elements". To get to the stages you had to step in an elevator, press the number of the level, and do what you could.
Here I always missed the game did not keep track of what levels you already done, and when all got finished a nice "congratulation!" would have been nice...
And the game was like monocrome: babyblue and babypink.





screenshots

Atomix on the other hand was way more dynamic. And the time-limit was disabled, so we could play it w/o frustration.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl7UdzqlX2M


This screenshot is from the remake, but couldn't find some higher level shots all the sudden.





Of course neither of these games surrendered to your smile.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

Ye. Proven wrong, the right answer is to run away. Your welcome.
Don't even try to explain your position, just stay at religious parrotting.

Um, you didn't prove "wrong" anything for me, and stop to blame me in your personal problems, please. Each and every your reply is veiled (or not so veiled) insult, with one and only base: "I, Great Twillight decided so, thus bow to my orders!" It's the bad habit, and actually exactly religious behavior: you assuming, for some reason, that I must take your conclusions on sole basis that _you_ believe in them. And after that you blame me in "religious parrotting". Bah.

I stopped to argue because it's pointless if opponent (you) ignores facts, makes wild speculations and goes to insults if there is no more arguments. This, and only this the reason why I stopped first time. But it seems, you don't understand subtlety and need blunt and apparent arguments. Ok, you got it. Are you happy?

Well, stay dreaming then, I will not continue this discussion further.

[twillight]

Oh dear, now someone goes full passive-agressive, and still lack making an argument!
Look pal, claiming that "you're rubber I'm glue" is NOT an argument. Start coming up answers to the WHY you think a product which lacks level design, difficulty curve, ability for story development, basic informations for the player etc. should even be considered a game, and not just a demo.
Not this "you're racist even though you're not, therefor Luke Skywalker sucks green-slime milk if classic!".
How about that?


In the meantime look at these:





I think this youtube-linking feature is broken, thus as always the link in itself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u5dtBtG9yU





This was a side-branch of gaming, consoles before consoles.
They were VERY primitive in what they offered, because pre-burned icons got filled with fluid to show the animations, so this is NOT ANYTHING like a gameboy was.
You always only fought against the highscore, and almost always only played for 10-15 minutes only. They were after all traveling devices.
Some had double screen, they had various shapes and forms, and the "good" ones in the end everyone settled were the hard ones.
They were probably the first games which demanded the use of the manual, which got lost, and handed down between players oraly.
Oh, and atevery move they beeped. Go left? Beep. Go right? Beep. Action? Beep. It beeped the heck out of you.
And if you rolled over after 1-3 hours the high-score (aka.maximum score it could present), you were the king/queen. And then someone took out the batteries, and the nice 99999 score got nullified, and you had to work your ass off again.