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[Evad]

Well, there are different trains of thought in regards to satanists from what I've learned.
Basically all the satanic bible does is reverse all of the sins to be virtues and all of the virtues to be sins. It was kind of interesting to read, but I also find the fact that most satanists are atheists quite annoying. They harp on the stupidity of christianity but don't realize that without it they wouldn't exist so they are hypocrites. It's basically a suped-up version of hedonism.
@wendy, technically you didn't break any rules because this is an open forum, and if anyone reads in here they are implying that they have interest in what we all have to say. Anyone who complains about your talking is breaking the rule about complaining about things they don't have to open themselves to(rule 7). You can still be a heathen if you want :twisted:

[omg]

but that seems crazy to me. like thou shall not kill.. so to reverse it means, thou shall kill right.. but that goes against rule 9 doesnt it,? of course it says nothing against killing humans per se.. but then in the ten commandments it says thou shall not kill.. it doesnt specify species.

[Evad]

Yes, but there is always a loophole. Look at any war through out history. They two sides always thought they were out for the greater good, and justified the act of mass murder with their holy dogma.

[omg]

yeah fair does man. i hate the way religion is twisted to allow people to kill each other, but if satanism is just reverseing the christian virtues then like hang on *goes to dig up bible*
ahem, sod that 2 drunk, ahh google

1: "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt..." - This commandment is to believe in the existence of God.

so he isnt the lord then? but surely as you belive in satan then there has to be a god..? o wait satan is the creator is it?


2: "You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

aww cmon, i agree with the satanists here, sculpture is cool


3: "You shalt not swear falsely by the name of the Lord..." - This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain oath. In Exodus, the text reads "in a vain oath" (לא תשא את שם ה' לשוא), while in Deuteronomy it reads "in a false oath" (לא תשא שם ה' לשקר).

so satanists spend all there time saying "oh for gods sake" or "jesus christ you son of a female dog" ect ...

4: "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy mentions "Keep" rather than "Remember")

black sabbath rule! i thought satanists like the sabbath....

5: "Honor your father and your mother..." - This commandment is a development when compared to other laws of the Ancient East (for example, the Code of Hammurabi) that do not call for equal respect of the father and the mother.

ok so satanists dishonour there parents, but hang on, does that make evry teenager a satanist?

6: "You shall not murder" - The Hebrew Bible makes a distinction between murdering and killing (see Jewish interpretation below).

but if you are a satanist that reads as "dont murder unless you eat what you murder"
so ted bundy is pretty cool is it?

7: "You shall not commit adultery"

well hey, as a married man im with the satanists for reverseing that one ....

8: "You shall not steal" (sometimes interpreted as kidnapping, since there are other injunctions against stealing property in the Bible).

so satanists you are required by your own law to steal. have fun in prison, just a hint here though guys ,,, dont drop the soap!

9: "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"

hey satanists, lets go reverse that one. of course you freaky satan worshipping guys have never heard of the rule of life that states "never defecate on your own doorstep"

10: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..." (in Exodus, the text reads "... neighbor's house, ... neighbor's wife, nor his manservant..." etc. while in Deuteronomy, "thy neighbor's wife, ... thy neighbor's house, his field" etc.)

so. satanists are required by there own law to constantly desire the possesions of people around them.. mm fun..

this explains why satanists dont smile a lot really. and at the end of the day if you are following the princepts of reverseing evrything in the bible then like i hope you like it in prison, just remeber what i said abaout the soap ...

[plix]

Originally posted by Evad@Dec 13 2005, 08:52 PM
They harp on the stupidity of christianity but don't realize that without it they wouldn't exist so they are hypocrites.

Excuse me, would you care to explain that?

[plix]

Originally posted by Evad@Dec 13 2005, 08:52 PM
Basically all the satanic bible does is reverse all of the sins to be virtues and all of the virtues to be sins.

Assuming that you mean the actual publication known as "The Satanic Bible" by LaVey, then you're way off. It's actually a collection of essays and poems, to put it very roughly, and is divided into four books on various topics.

As for the follow-ups about the reversal of sins and virtues, that's also way off-base. The "inversionism" of Satanism is about the belief that one is his/her own God, whereas the traditional Judeo-Christian belief is that there exists a higher power. It's the belief that you are the master of your own destiny versus the belief that your life follows the plan of a greater being.

That said, I'm Roman Catholic, but to have an at all meaningful debate you should at least know what the hell you're talking about. It's not like you don't have access to the internet to at least do some cursory research.

[Evad]

Originally posted by plix+Dec 13 2005, 09:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (plix @ Dec 13 2005, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evad@Dec 13 2005, 08:52 PM
Basically all the satanic bible does is reverse all of the sins to be virtues and all of the virtues to be sins.

As for the follow-ups about the reversal of sins and virtues, that's also way off-base. The "inversionism" of Satanism is about the belief that one is his/her own God, whereas the traditional Judeo-Christian belief is that there exists a higher power. It's the belief that you are the master of your own destiny versus the belief that your life follows the plan of a greater being.

That said, I'm Roman Catholic, but to have an at all meaningful debate you should at least know what the hell you're talking about. It's not like you don't have access to the internet to at least do some cursory research. [/b][/quote]
"Assuming that you mean the actual publication known as "The Satanic Bible" by LaVey, then you're way off. It's actually a collection of essays and poems, to put it very roughly, and is divided into four books on various topics."

Although your description is admittedly better then mine, I was hardly off base. A simple google search could tell you that.

http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/NineStatements.html

These are the 9 statments of LaYey that sum up his brand of Satanism, and they are obviously geared diametricly towards the nine noble virtues that I meantioned previously. They ARE included in the satanic bible.

"As for the follow-ups about the reversal of sins and virtues, that's also way off-base...".

As for my follow up, It had nothing to do with the reversal of the virtues, as I covered that in my opening sentence. My followup explained why Satanists annoy me(which I will cover in the next sentence). Maybe you should re-read my initial post and reorginize your rebuttle.

The "inversionism" of Satanism is about the belief that one is his/her own God, whereas the traditional Judeo-Christian belief is that there exists a higher power.

This is what I was getting at when I said satanists annoy me. They knock Christians for blindly following a dogmatic ridged structured religion and preach that they are their own God.. Well I don't see how Satanists are any different from say a Catholic. Why not just say this is ME, instead of labling yourself a satanist?The answer: because they are as much sheep as the christians they pupose to hate are. Instead of thinking up their own philosophies they latch on to someone elses. Just stupid in my opinion, and pathetic too.

"It's the belief that you are the master of your own destiny versus the belief that your life follows the plan of a greater being."

They also believe that you can influence anothers fate as well no? Through spells? LaVey is also the man who coined the term "Emotional Vampire. Wouldn't these beliefs contradict what you have said as they are out of the "victims" control?

I am guilty of making a badly worded generalization, but way off base is a flat out fabrication of facts. I'm not sure why you would feel the need to discredit me, but whatever I did to make you so mad, I appoligise for here.


"They harp on the stupidity of christianity but don't realize that without it they wouldn't exist so they are hypocrites."<---me

Excuse me, would you care to explain that? <---you

Satan is a Christian character/theme/myth. Basically LaVey plagerized the idea from Christianity. It would follow with this train of thought, that without christianity, Satanism would be called by another name. And lets face it, the fact that they even call themselves satanists is just shock value. This is what I meant. No Christianity, no super-dupper shock extraviganza name. satanists are suckling at the tit of all of christianity.

[lethe]

Lavey was a clown in a circus, and he knew that very well. That was what he performed, and he did it in a terrific way. The satyr between free invididual vs religion and Satanism vs Christiniaty is well achieved. Actually I'd consider myself satanist according to Lavey, but I'd refuse the acceptance of a Satan character, simply because I would need to believe in a godly character as well (many so called "satanists" seem to forget this).

[plix]

Originally posted by Evad@Dec 14 2005, 12:01 AM
As for my follow up, It had nothing to do with the reversal of the virtues, as I covered that in my opening sentence. My followup explained why Satanists annoy me(which I will cover in the next sentence). Maybe you should re-read my initial post and reorginize your rebuttle.

I was generalizing in response to the majority of the thread that followed what you posted (since what you posted was rather tearse and factually correct). My rebuttal was targetted at those who were misrepresenting your overgeneralization that Satanism is simply the inversion of the entire Bible, when it isn't (as you yourself noted).

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Evad")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This is what I was getting at when I said satanists annoy me. They knock Christians for blindly following a dogmatic ridged structured religion and preach that they are their own God.. Well I don't see how Satanists are any different from say a Catholic. Why not just say this is ME, instead of labling yourself a Satanist? The answer: because they are as much sheep as the christians they pupose to hate are. Instead of thinking up their own philosophies they latch on to someone elses. Just stupid in my opinion, and pathetic too.[/b][/quote]
Actually, Satanists dog Christians for following a greater being rather than acting for themselves. You then start to make statements which are anti-religion, and hence seem to be a little out-of-context here. Satanism is a religion, which you criticize for being a shared belief. In this way it is, of course, no different than any other religion including Roman Catholicism.

It's not a contradiction to believe that you only answer to yourself and at the same time share that belief with others. Even still, not all Satanists are members of the Church of Satan or another satanic organization.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Evad")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>They also believe that you can influence anothers fate as well no? Through spells? LaVey is also the man who coined the term "Emotional Vampire. Wouldn't these beliefs contradict what you have said as they are out of the "victims" control?[/b][/quote]
The "spells" of Satanism are actually more like prayers than illusions. A lot of it is based upon Aleister Crowley's idea of "magick" (note the spelling) and is about inducing naturally possible change rather than exerting unnatural influence. So no, those beliefs don't contradict the core tenants of Satanism.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Evad")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It would follow with this train of thought, that without christianity, Satanism would be called by another name. And lets face it, the fact that they even call themselves satanists is just shock value.[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't exactly sure what you were trying to imply originally. That said, the name "Satanism" isn't a ploy intended for shock value (hence why the "pop-Satanists" of the Marilyn Manson era are so laughable), but is actually derived from the idea of "Satan" not as the anti-Christ/anti-God, but as an embodiment of free will, specifically the freedom to act in an "bad" way (for lack of a better term).

[plix]

Originally posted by lethe@Dec 14 2005, 01:26 AM
...but I'd refuse the acceptance of a Satan character, simply because I would need to believe in a godly character as well (many so called "satanists" seem to forget this).

Satanism is the rejection of all deities and the belief that you are alone responsible for your own spiritual/moral development. It's not about worshipping "Satan."