«

[12turtle12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blood-Pigggy @ Sep 14 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]310977[/snapback]</div>

the only reason people play is because of digital materialism, so they can get their imaginary objects that will make their character more powerful or gain a level, really,
It's like drugs, you struggle to get that short high and then when you realize that you got you wanted you want to get something else, you'll start going for that.

You may use the cliche that I'm saying "I can't see the forest, because there's a bunch of trees in the way"

" I'd rather spend 100 hours on something genuinely fun like Fallout [/b]

#1 - Thank you Blood, I couldn't find the words but that nails it exactly.

#2 - I think it's actually "can't see the forest for the trees" :bleh:

#3 - Fallout!? Blood for teh win! (Rep points +1)

[Tito]

Ok, as I was the one who brought WoW into discussion, a few things. I only talked about it as a good example of strong design. The fact that you have to pay is annoying in one way (quite obvious) but good in another. When you have to pay for something you actually are more willing to enjoy it, and this, in WoW, prevents the kind of player who thinks "Bwa ha ha! I'm the best and I will annoy all those players so they can see how big my ego is". It is the same when you party in Ibiza, as everyone has payed about 35 € for entering a disco, no one is willing to start a fight, as that would be innapropiate for such an investement.

And please, forgive my mistakes, I'm a bit rushed.

[Blood-Pigggy]

That was my opinion on WoW though, I consider it nothing more than a cleverly designed money pit.

[Tito]

:blink: Two posts appeared while I was writing mine! Couldn't you guys just wait a bit, so I can make a logical response, and then you can bust it in any way you want?

Actually, mine, while intended as a response for a previous one, seems to fit quite well where it is. Just a few comments.

I know WoW is a money pit, but not that much. One month in it is as expensive as one hour in a saturday night in my city, and it won't hurt your liver, nor give you hangovers.

Also, every single game, if it is a good one, is designed to be addicteve, and by this I mean that, being good enough, it will automatically hook you to the screen 'til you end it. The only difference is that some games are longer than others. About the digital materialism, it is the same thing. In a FPS you'll go for the bigger weapon, the nastier enemy or the next level. In a RTS you'll want to see a more powerful unit. In an adventure you'll look for another landscape or twist in the plot. And why bothering about traditional RPG's? As I said, the same thing. If you want to carry it to an extreme, you can look down on any game. And I, personally, can tell when I'm enjoying something.

Now that everybody knows who likes WoW and who hates it, can we go back to the discussion about Pc Gaming?

Even better, I'll go out for a beer or two so I can throw an answer full of typos and weird reflections (even if there is no question at all), so this thread can remain alive. I'm starting to like it.

[chumloofah]

Can't say the idea of paying to pay the game you've already bought appeals to me in the slightest.
If you've got money for that you've got money to do real things like take up smoking or drinking or whoring k:
Plenty funner things than levelling for free too
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Tito")</div>

About the digital materialism, it is the same thing.[/b]

It's not really.
In a proper game you have a goal beyond getting stronger and finding phatter loot.
When it gets to the point where that's all that's going on it's time to get a job and a gym membership and become a lvl 2 human.

[Blood-Pigggy]

I disagree, a shooter has a constant thrill that comes from more than just killing monsters, getting to the next level, or getting a bigger gun.

Half-Life is a massive testament to this, so are games like Far Cry to a certain extent. Half-Life introduces the cinematic aspect and entertains you by involving you in situations that aren't just a shooting gallery. Far Cry introduces an exploration element and you benefit from actually DOING the actions in the game. When you kill baddies in a shooter, you'll be doing it for most of the game.
If the game is done as it's supposed to, it's entertaining. WoW on the other hand, as I said, only gives you momentary satisfaction from the game once you find that item or gain a level. Even Diablo 2 managed to avoid that since killing hundreds of enemies in itself is very entertaining.

As for RTS games, well, killing 20 carriers with 100 marines really proves that RTS titles aren't about the next big unit if they're done properly.

[Eagle of Fire]

Well, about WoW... Since I am the thread starter, I'll comment on this.

I dislike MMORPGs. A lot. They are usually only made for you to spill your money to the developpers and the game usually stagnate until you get fed up and leave because you been playing the same game over and over and over again for years.I was very reluctant to try out WoW, and I would probably never have tryied if it wasn't of one of my friends who was sick at the time and had nothing to do than play computer games all day (and rest). So I started a free account to give him some company... And then, as I began playing around more seriously on my own, I saw the light.

What kind of light, you ask? Not the "OMG this is the best kind of game I have ever played I must be smitten not to have seen this before!" kind of light... But the "God, this game is a true gem and it's probably the best of it's kind ever made yet" kind of light.

Sure, I still dislike MMORPGs. Just like I still hate adventure games. This never stopped me, however, to try some once in a while and stop to analyse the strenght and the weaknesses of each game. There is crappy games in all genre, and there is real gems in all genres too. WoW is one of those gems. I tryied a lot of MMORPGs in my days, and I always got a lot of issues about them. WoW managed to even out almost all of those issues, and it's still fun to play while at the same time having enough different content to please any kind of player.

So, yeah... MMORPGs (usually) sucks. But just like I'd tell you to try MOO and Master of Magic if you think that strategy games in general sucks... Try out WoW at least once before complaining, even if you think MMORPGs sucks. It's that good.

[Tito]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chumloofah @ Sep 14 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]311003[/snapback]</div>

If you've got money for that you've got money to do real things like take up smoking or drinking or whoring k:
Plenty funner things than levelling for free too
[/b]

As I already said, one month in WoW is as expensive as half of a night out in Madrid. I'm not comparing then, actually I enjoy both :bleh: . But please, stop presenting MMORPG players as rich addicts unable of doing anything else in their lives. I consider myself, at least, a level 2 and a half human.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blood-Pigggy @ Sep 14 2007, 10:02 PM) [snapback]311004[/snapback]</div>

If the game is done as it's supposed to, it's entertaining. WoW on the other hand, as I said, only gives you momentary satisfaction from the game once you find that item or gain a level. Even Diablo 2 managed to avoid that since killing hundreds of enemies in itself is very entertaining.
[/b]

What I was trying to demonstrate is that your argument can be applied to any game, if taken to an extreme. Not that I really think all those genres suck. I've been playing them for many years, and I like them. It is just that your point of view isn't also appliable to WoW, as the game offers many more things than those you mentioned.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagle of Fire @ Sep 15 2007, 02:03 AM) [snapback]311024[/snapback]</div>

So, yeah... MMORPGs (usually) sucks. But just like I'd tell you to try MOO and Master of Magic if you think that strategy games in general sucks... Try out WoW at least once before complaining, even if you think MMORPGs sucks. It's that good.
[/b]

Thanks Eagle, at least you have to played the game for quite a while before saying it sucks/doesn't suck

[guesst]

Lemme chime in on this one before I disapear again. I want to go back to the original topic.

PC gaming is not dead. There are new games coming out for PC that you can't get on a console. The only reason you think PC gaming is dying is because there are games on XBox and Wii coming out that you want. But nothing really has changed. Lets review a little (generalized and over simplified) PC gaming history:

When IBM PCs had CGA graphics console kids had 16 colors on their nintendo. When PCs had 16 colors the sega genesis had 32. For a while if you wanted arcade quality games, consoles were the only place to go.

Then PCs pulled ahead with two major advancements: 256 color and mouse control. Soon 16 million colors and 3D full 3D games (quake) took point and PC gaming became a buzzword. Oh sure, StarCraft was ported to the N64, but have you ever actually played it? And sure, doom and quake made it on to numerious consoles years after PC gamers had unlocked all their secrets. For a while it was accepted that if you were a PC gamer you had the superior system. Consoles were for those who couldn't afford a graphics card.

However, that started changing with James Bond on the N64. Finally FPS gaming was successfully brought to a console. It was playable, it was fun, and it wasn't available on PC. But that was okay. PCs still had RTS and there was nothing any console could do to take that from us.

Unfortunatly there was nothing any console needed to do. RTSs had their run and now they're not that great. They have their fan base I suppose, but as a commercially viable genre they've kinda faded. Halo then solidified the console as a FPS system and consoles pulled ahead again.

PCs still have MMORPGs, like 'em or not, they are a financially viable medium for commercial success in PC games. Will PCs ever pull ahead again? Probably. Maybe not. Who knows. But PC gaming isn't dying because it can never die. It's position right now is weak, but so what? It's not like I have any time to play games any more anyways.

[Blood-Pigggy]

That wasn't the point Guesst, the whole point is that gaming is watered down.