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[TheSmyth]

Although we all know Piracy is bad, many of us still do it in some small (or some cases large) way or another.
But we are supporting a site that is 'technically' Pirating the majority of it's games.

From Abandonia FAQ:
* * * * * * "The distribution of copyrighted software however is, and will allways be, illegal!"

If a music download site was trying to give away old songs (i.e. that were no longer doing the rounds, even on those 'TimeLife' collection CD's ) I'm sure the music industry would have no questions about stamping on their heads. And everyone would agree that it was piracy.

That doesn't mean i don't agree with abandonware, just that i think there should be more ridgid rules determining what is and what isn't. Otherwise, what makes us any better than a warez site?

Books are nothing like games.
Games have a life expectancy of..... 5yrs?, 10yrs? (who knows?) but by the end of that, they are usually outclassed by a superior game. Just because i enjoyed playing Duke3D when it first came out, doesn't mean that half-life isn't better than it. (If i can pay $5 for half-life / $30 for Duke3D i'd be insane to pick Duke3D!) :crazy:
The Lord of the Rings is over 50 years old and still going strong, in another 50 it'll still be the same.

[red_avatar]

About CDAccess:

I collect old PC games. I'm proud of my 750+ games collection (not counting the rare disk version) but I also have an abandonware collection on my hard drive for more than 12Gb of games I downloaded from Abandonware sites.

Many games I downloaded at first, I later tried to look for on eBay and other sites (GameTZ for example).

Anyway, about CDAccess: On The Underdogs, I often found games I'd wanted to try for years but never managed to find in stores. Especially games in the first half of the 90s barely appear on eBay in my country because back then PC games cost a fortune here and were very very hard to find.

So when HOTU posted a link to CDAccess, I always went to take a look, and I always, always got pissed off by the cost of a 15 year old game! They charge $20 easily for some old games - an amount that I *might* be willing to pay if it wasn't for the big RIP OF that is shipping & handling. I can mail a game for a mere $7 to the US yet they charge $30+ FOR ONE GAME! Even a CD jewel case! You end up paying $50 for a game that's really old! A game that's not even rare ...

[Timpsi]

Originally posted by TheSmyth@Mar 16 2005, 09:35 AM
Books are nothing like games.
Games have a life expectancy of..... 5yrs?, 10yrs? (who knows?) but by the end of that, they are usually outclassed by a superior game. Just because i enjoyed playing Duke3D when it first came out, doesn't mean that half-life isn't better than it. (If i can pay $5 for half-life / $30 for Duke3D i'd be insane to pick Duke3D!) :crazy:
The Lord of the Rings is over 50 years old and still going strong, in another 50 it'll still be the same.

Well, here I strongly disagree with you, as I believe the quality of the entertainment is not dependant on its age. I'm afraid your comparison is a bit unfair, as old games are hardly ever 6 times more expensive than the newer ones, and comparing Duke3D to Half-Life is a bit like comparing some Eddings books to Lord of the Rings - sure some people enjoy Eddings, but Lord of the Rings is totally up at its own league.

For example, the old The Great Escape is better than the new version which came out a few years ago. Also, the original Elite is vastly better than it's sequels. Monkey Island 1 is a million times better buy than the 4th part. I'd gladly pay the same (or more) for the old titles as I'd pay for the new ones, knowing I'd have much more fun playing them.

Technologically the games can get more advanced, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'd get better or more valuable. Same thing with books, movies, music, board games, etc.

I do agree that CDAccess is pricey, but it's not usually the only possible source. I recommend checking this thread for other possible locations for purchasing old games on the net.

[The Fifth Horseman]

I agree that CDA have ridiculous prices on some old games too, but that's just the way they operate...

For a game thats 15 years old isnt worth paying even a buck...

Negative. I played some very good games from 1987 even, some from 1991 (that's _almost_ 15 years there), and if they were still for sale I would surely buy them (altough 20$ apiece would be ridiculous - 5-10$ would be much more reasonable)

[TheSmyth]

I think the issues have become side tracked here. LOL

My original question was, If a new copy of a game is available on CDAccess (or any other internet retailer) does that automatically mean that it is not abandonware?

[Timpsi]

Originally posted by TheSmyth@Mar 16 2005, 03:09 PM
I think the issues have become side tracked here. LOL

My original question was, If a new copy of a game is available on CDAccess (or any other internet retailer) does that automatically mean that it is not abandonware?

In fact, I addressed this question on the front page of this thread, in this post. It's not simply an issue whethet the title is abandonware or not in order to be accepted on the site, as the common definition of abandonware doesn't include the retailers.

[TheSmyth]

Without want to sound really boring and repetetive Timpsi... :whistle: You said:

"...The usual definition of abandonware is that the game is no longer sold or supported by the copyright holder. By this definition the software in your example would not be abandonware. However, for example HOTU and Abandonia wish to support the retailers and not offer downloads for games that are available for purchase on the net..."

By this definition:
YES - A game would be abandonware even though it is still sold, k:
but
NO - Abandonia would not host it because they wish to support the retailers. k:
(However i can identify more than a few which are hosted, but fall into this category :crazy: ).
Is it just me or does that seem a bit strange to you?

My point is, who decides if it's suitable for the site? (and what do they do to check that it is abandoned?)

[Rogue]

I buy old books for price between $1.00 and $5.00 and new ones between $6.00 and $30.00. What that has to do with the games?

Timpsi, what about that OEM game? Shouldn't they already know that it is illegal to sell OEM games alone?

[DeathDude]

Some of the prices are just ridiculous for some of the older games, yes some of them are classics, but come on even if it is a classic I want a reasonable price, good example is some of the older Lucasart's titles like Curse of Monkey Island, which is like $14.95 American, for me after conversion and shipping it's almost $30 bucks, way too much, rather get it on ebay then at least then it'd be cheaper.

[Timpsi]

Originally posted by TheSmyth@Mar 16 2005, 03:43 PM
By this definition:
YES - A game would be abandonware even though it is still sold,* k:
but
NO - Abandonia would not host it because they wish to support the retailers. k:
* * * * (However i can identify more than a few which are hosted, but fall into this category* :crazy: ).
Is it just me or does that seem a bit strange to you?

Well, as you know, the point of abandonware is to offer titles that are impossible to acquire from their copyright holders. Now, Abandonia wishes to go futher than that, and to support the retailers. Therefore just being abandonware isn't enough to get on the site.

However, as it's all voluntary work on a non-profit site, mistakes happen. Also, some titles may get re-released, and old stocks get found. Therefore the situation keeps changing, and some downloads have to get removed from the site. For example this is the case with The Sting! if I remember correctly.

The point here is that Abandinia has an additional policy of its own - it does its best to support the retailers, but it can hardly ever be 100% foolproof.

My point is, who decides if it's suitable for the site? (and what do they do to check that it is abandoned?)

The admins decide what gets put up on the site. I believe they run through several webstores and the creators' sites to check whether the software is ok for the site or not.

What comes to the OEM, it depends on the OEM licence, as not all of them are all that restrictive. I'll get back to this once CDAccess answers me (they did already, but I asked for some more information regarding the origins of Earthworm Jim).