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[plix]

Originally posted by natas@Apr 14 2006, 12:33 PM
In which countries DO they have the law on their side? In Germany also?

Berne Convention
Berne Convention Signatories

There are a few countries which have not yet signed (and you're hard-pressed to find one), but they in all likelihood have their own copyright laws.

[#BlakhOle#]

Originally posted by the_fifth_horseman@Apr 13 2006, 01:16 PM
Those other sites are usually just lucky to not have been found by ESA.

When they are found, they will receive a simple "cease or desist" order, and if they fail to comply, they will be totally and permamently shut down.

We used to have an agreement with ESA where they allowed us to host some of the games they protect, but someone in here has overlooked the fact that a couple ESA-protected games were uploaded without ESA's permission.
They ordered us to remove the games within 24 hours or they will terminate the site. We had no other choice but to comply.

This was about a year ago.

Does this mean they ban some reviews as well? or just the actual download?

[Quintopotere]

Originally posted by #BlakhOle#@Apr 15 2006, 05:06 AM
Does this mean they ban some reviews as well? or just the actual download?

I think that they just don't want the downloads...
The reviews are something like free advertisings, so probably the like them!

[natas]

Originally posted by plix+Apr 14 2006, 08:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (plix @ Apr 14 2006, 08:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-natas@Apr 14 2006, 12:33 PM
In which countries DO they have the law on their side? In Germany also?

Berne Convention
Berne Convention Signatories

There are a few countries which have not yet signed (and you're hard-pressed to find one), but they in all likelihood have their own copyright laws.[/b][/quote]
Ok yes, I've heard about that in the past, but I don't want to break the rules, so it doesn't bother me ...

I can't help, what this private ESA thingie does, does not make much sense for me.

They allow some people (site maintainers) to freely distribute one or more abandoned copyrighted games. Many people notice that and download the games. Then it happens, they find one/two files free for download they didn't allow; so they refuse their allowing and the site has to remove the games including them they allowed in the past.

From that day people could legally download the game for free, the game is free and will stay being free. They cannot get people (who got it legally free) from spreading it further. So why should the site stop doing that?

Many game designers give away their old work for free if they don't earn money with that stuff anymore, so why does not all of them do that? That ESA thingie is totally nonesense in my eyes, or am I totally confused in my thinking?

It seems people are not happy with the exsisting rules, so get them to change the rules!
Don't buy any new games, if they don't change their mind! You'll see it works ...

I hope my pretty bad english was good enough to understand what I wanted to say.

[a1s]

Originally posted by natas@Apr 15 2006, 02:10 PM
They cannot get people (who got it legally free) from spreading it further.

well, they can try...
if yoiu redistribute it on your site you'll get the CoD order (a paper that tells them to stop whatever thaey're doing and come with their hands behind their heads ), and that would be solved.
if it's distributed through P2P networks, well... you allways knew 99.9% of teir content was illegal (you know, "warez") so no change here either.

[natas]

Originally posted by a1s+Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (a1s @ Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

well, they can try...[/b]

And they can fail, as they do pretty often ...

But let me clear out one thing here, as you seem to be talking about me, where I am talking about abandoned games and the rules. - I don't have a site until now and don't distribute abandoned games. There are enough sites for that and I am glad they exsist and thank all the people for their great work on these sites.

<!--QuoteBegin-a1s@Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM
if yoiu redistribute it on your site you'll get the CoD order (a paper that tells them to stop whatever thaey're doing and come with their hands behind their heads* ), and that would be solved.[/quote]
If I or someone else legally download an abandoned game from a site that is allowed to distribute the game for free, then everything is pretty ok. If the downloader gets a copy of the "allowing" from the site he downloaded from, he can be sure the game is free, and because he never agreed only using it for himself, what would they do, if he shares it on his site? Nothing!

Originally posted by a1s@Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM
if it's distributed through P2P networks, well... you allways knew 99.9% of teir content was illegal (you know, "warez") so no change here either.

That p2p mythology isn't true, but that's not topic here, sorry.

Edit: the other site has removed the *SA protected games, so they did not have permission ...

[a1s]

But let me clear out one thing here, as you seem to be talking about me

I'm not talking about you, it's just easier for me to gvie examples in second person. I will try to refrain from that in the furuture, sorry.

If I or someone else legally download an abandoned game from a site that is allowed to distribute the game for free, then everything is pretty ok. If the downloader gets a copy of the "allowing" from the site he downloaded from, he can be sure the game is free, and because he never agreed only using it for himself, what would they do, if he shares it on his site? Nothing!

well I would sure like to see someone (note that I didn't say "you") trying that. but consider the folloing example:
person A (which is not me) is a writer, person B (this is annoying, can I just go back to my persoanlised examples? please?) is his friend. because of that A gives B a buch of free copies of his new book. do you (err... I mean "would person C...") believe it's right for B to copy the book a thousdand times and give it to his every aquantance?

That p2p mythology isn't true, but that's not topic here, sorry

P2P mythology? could you summarize that in brief (in a PM for exmple if you don't want to do it here). and I know P2P is illegal from first hand experience (that is to say I use it, not that I got arrested for it.)

[plix]

Originally posted by natas@Apr 15 2006, 04:38 PM
If I or someone else legally download an abandoned game from a site that is allowed to distribute the game for free, then everything is pretty ok. If the downloader gets a copy of the "allowing" from the site he downloaded from, he can be sure the game is free, and because he never agreed only using it for himself, what would they do, if he shares it on his site? Nothing!

Patently false. Copyright law is 100% about this very issue. Note the "copy" and "right." I have every right to freely distribute my own original works (to create copies, in other words) to whomever I choose. However, that distribution in no way grants the recipiant any right whatsoever to create copies of said work. It's a very clear-cut issue.

The right of first sale -- which allows you to sell or give away a legal physical copy of a work -- does not apply here as we're talking about redistribution of illegal duplicates rather than resale (even if for free) of a legal physical copy (single license).

[natas]

Originally posted by a1s@Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM
well I would sure like to see someone (note that I didn't say "you") trying that.

hehe, I started a try last night and found the esa protected games removed, so they wasn't allowed to distribute them ...

Originally posted by a1s@Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM
but consider the folloing example:
person A (which is not me) is a writer, person B (this is annoying, can I just go back to my persoanlised examples? please?) is his friend. because of that A gives B a buch of free copies of his new book. do you (err... I mean "would person C...") believe it's right for B to copy the book a thousdand times and give it to his every aquantance?

No surely not! But thats not what i mean. And yes you may go back to persoanlised examples

Let me do an example, no two:

Abandoina was allowed to distribute one ESA protected game (and had to stop that because they distributed 2 other also protected games without knowing, they are protected also) The reason they may not distribute the first game any more does not matter.

Situation 1:
1000 user downloaded the Allowed copy. They all have a legal copy of a protected game htey never paid for, right?

Situation 2:
Only 10 user found the download and got the legal copy of a protected game without paying for it. 99 other people download the game from each of the 10, who was lucky to find it here. The 990 who got it from the 10 have a illegal copy, you say.

But what's the difference? in both cases 1000 people got the game.

Who will later find out where someone got his copy from? Legally from the once allowed site at the allowed time or from someone else at any time, illegally? Sorry, it makes no sense to me. The game Abandonia was allowed to distribute for download was free and will remain free because of that.

You can give something to sombody, if you have the right to do that, but you cannot take it away again. That would indeed be illegally.
Abandonia should have been told to remove the two not allowed games and nothing more!

Originally posted by a1s@Apr 15 2006, 02:49 PM
P2P mythology? could you summarize that in brief (in a PM for exmple if you don't want to do it here).

Let's talk about that in Blah, blah, blah....

[Stebbi]

Okay Satan remember this Esa is good, with out esa there wouldn't be any video games coming from the U.s.a without esa video games would be banned in the usa.