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[plix]

Originally posted by efthimios@Apr 22 2006, 07:11 PM
Being atheist is not the same as religious.
Just because some atheists are strong about it, it doesn't make it a religion.

A religion is a belief system. Atheism is a belief system. Atheism is a religion.

Agnosticism is non-religious, but differs quite a bit from atheism.

[efthimios]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Apr 23 2006, 01:22 AM
I said a Pagan is someone without religion.
What my dictionary says.

Pagan - One who has no religion.

Atheism - Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

Which means Atheism has NOTHING to do with Religion, and yes, saying it was a Religion was a mistake, Atheism is a state of mind, you can be part of a Religion, and still be Atheist it's simple.
50% of Atheists thinks it means that they don't have a religion, and that's wrong, and the fact that they feel so strongly about is also incredibly annoying.

I advise you to get a non christian dictionary.

Pagan is nothing but a term used by christians to downplay non christian religions and belief systems.

[efthimios]

Originally posted by plix+Apr 23 2006, 01:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (plix @ Apr 23 2006, 01:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-efthimios@Apr 22 2006, 07:11 PM
Being atheist is not the same as religious.
Just because some atheists are strong about it, it doesn't make it a religion.

A religion is a belief system. Atheism is a belief system. Atheism is a religion.

Agnosticism is non-religious, but differs quite a bit from atheism. [/b][/quote]
John is a mass murderer.
John is a human.
Jack is a human.
Thus Jack is a mass murderer.

It doesn't work this way.

Atheism is not a religion.

[plix]

Originally posted by efthimios@Apr 22 2006, 10:02 PM
John is a mass murderer.
John is a human.
Jack is a human.
Thus Jack is a mass murderer.

It doesn't work this way.

Yeah, except that it does work that way. My post was poorly worded, but your's was incorrect. Your example, properly applied, would look like:
A mass murderer is human.
John is a mass murderer.
Therefore John is human.

Religion is an aggregate, whereas Atheism is an atomic unit. "Religion" is defined as a belief system; which is to say, any belief system. Therefore, Atheism, as a belief system, is also a religion.

I know what a fallacy of composition is, it just happens that this is a truth by definiton, not a logical conclusion (which is how I originally worded it).

[plix]

Originally posted by efthimios@Apr 22 2006, 10:00 PM
I advise you to get a non christian dictionary.

Like the American Heritage Dictionary or Merriam-Webster's Unabridged English Dictionary? Both contain definitions for "pagan" as meaning "one with no religion."

[gregor]

Originally posted by plix@Apr 23 2006, 06:03 AM


"Religion" is defined as a belief system; which is to say, any belief system. Therefore, Atheism, as a belief system, is also a religion.

:blink: atheism is a belief into what???? Atheism is conviction that there is nothing outthere that could manipulate our behaviour or the way things happen to us. nothing! and that religion is only a construct made to manipulate the masses.

[plix]

Originally posted by gregor@Apr 23 2006, 01:37 AM
atheism is a belief into what???? Atheism is conviction that there is nothing outthere that could manipulate our behaviour or the way things happen to us. nothing!

Atheism is a belief that there exists no diety. It is an inherently unprovable assertation (by the very definition of most "Gods") so, I'm afraid, Atheism is "relegated" to religious status. You believe that there is no greater being as you inherently cannot prove such a position by.

Originally posted by gregor
and that religion is only a construct made to manipulate the masses.

The phrase you're searching for is "...the opiate of the masses" (Karl Marx). Funny, though, as that would include Atheism. Organized religion is not the only form of religion, and dismissing all organized religions as inherently and completely currupt and evil is a bit of a stretch.

That said, be very careful when making blanket statements about things people take very seriously.

[Juni Ori]

And that is the largest problem with devotion.

But I just have to say this about atheism, being myself atheist: although it is disbelief, it can still perceived as a belief; but it can't be religion, because there's no organized or common behavior, rules or gatherings. However, this brought to my mind, why not? Why not establish "Temple of Atheism"? k:

Edit: Forgot to bring this into discussion:
How about science? Some of us never get to test and proof things they claim to be true. Let's take as simple example as our own solar system... Have I ever truly proved it to be like they claim? No. Hence I believe in science...

[efthimios]

The reason why most dictionaries do not classify pagan beliefs as religions is the same reason why PRC does not want to recognise Taiwan as an independent country. Main religions for centuries, christianity first of all, have fought strongly against the original religions/beliefs of people, thus the term pagan to put everything else together. As far as I know there is no religion or belief with the name Pagan. It is used to put into the same basket many beliefs/religions.

In other words, and I won't repeat it, believe whatever you want, but "paganism" contains religions.





plix, atheism is not a religion. Just because people believe in the non existance of gods, doesn't make them followers of the religion of atheism. The same way that communism is not a religion.

[Danny252]

So you can have a country whose political system is atheist? Seeing as atheism and communism are the same sort of thing, according to you.. ^^

Communism is a way of life. Atheism is the belief there is no god. Atheism is a religion in the sense that it states something about god (That he dosen't exist)