Not 5 stars - for the love of God - not 5 stars!
 

I will not send in reviews if the system is going to be 5 stars.

It has already been stated not to send in totally high scores, which can only be the 5 stars, so straight away I can see lots of 3 and 4 stars, and what the hell will that mean?

ESPECIALLY because we are talking about 20 year old games, we need the review scores to be out of 100.This allows nuance and allows for much precise scoring. In fact, you might be surprised to know that the 5 star system became popular via CONSOLE magazine and CONSOLE sites!

So score out of 100, for God's sake!

Well I don't find it so important. I would prefer 0-10, but actually I abhor 0-100 scores, precisely because there's no way anyone can tell a 85 from a 87, but mags use those scores as if they could. Come on. Any system can work, it's a matter of resolution, and it can be too much as well as too little.

I'm ok with 1-10 but I have never cared for 1-5. There have been too many time I have wanted 3.5 (7) and 4.5 (9).

I'm against scoring in general, since a score can't give you an impression of a game. For the Times, I would have thought that the idea is people read the magazine, so the scores are irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure scoring in increments of 0,5 point is possible. So the scale has 10 steps even though there are 5 stars.

The people's rating has even more possible points, for example one game has a score of 3.2
So there's a total of 40 different ratings, from 1.0 through 5.0

Yes, but how different people rate games... like was said above, what's the difference between 85% and 87%? Are two reviewers' 72% scores equivalent to each other? Etc.
So, a 10-point scale is fine. A 100-point one is far too vague.

Ditto. MobyGames can use 100 points for their ranks, but only because they're averaged from numerous press reviews. So unless you calculate an average from a split score (graphics, sound, playability, etc.), 10-point scale is detailed enough.

Hah. Those scores are gonna express one man's opinion each, so it doesn't matter at all. It's not like you need to have it as precise as possible so people will know what game really is better. Because frankly, like I've always said, there is no "good" or "bad" when it comes to something that's a matter of taste, anyway. Even the most professional reviewers have taste. Even the most professional reviewers wouldn't give a game of a genre they despise a perfect 100 because "it deserves it".


Come on. Read the reviews. Get some insight. Play the games. Form your own opinions.

Even if you average from split scores, the best thing you can do is rounding afterwards. Otherwise you'll be just sampling noise.

I totally support the TC, but I'd only want to see 1-10 scores instead of 1-100. Scoring is a nice little thumbnail, but 1-5 scoring NEVER works, for whatever reason, people tend to dish out 5s like it's the status quo, whereas most people will be happy with giving even some of their favorite things 8-9s.

Wall of Text based on Game Ratings...
 

Well, If forced to, I will rate things on a Five Star basis... however, on my reviews, and if at all possible, I have been known to give scores based on a 10 number scale. Occasionally a 1.1 1.2 1.3 etc. scale.

It is true, though. If something gets "Five Stars", it often means less than if something gets "10 Points" or "10 Stars". :wacko:

Part of this is that something that is achem, "COMPLETELY AWESOME" might get rated 5 Stars because it was really good. That same game might get rated a 8.9 in a ten point scale.:3:

It's almost like they round in a 5 Star/Point scale. Kindof like " Well, this game only deserves a 8.5 out of ten, but I'm going to give it Five out of five because bad isn't bad enough to put the score down lower to a four."
Some of it is personal taste, and mood.
:idea:
Also, it's to be noticed that, to the extent of my knowledge, ALL games have flaws. Some are small, some are large, some are so miniscule you may not even realize that they're there, but there really is no "Perfect Game".

For instance, DOOM. A loved and cherished classic. Flaws? :idea:Sure. Can't look up or down.:sucks: Uses sprites for enemies.:lol:
Of course, these "Flaws" are only "Flaws" in personal opinion.:doh: Some people may love sprites for enemies.:omg: I actually like them, myself.:picard:

From a neutral standpoint, however, from hindsight with games with 3D characters, I would call it a "Flaw". Although that definition is HIGHLY subjective, considering at the time they didn't have 3D models readily available to them, and therefor it was more of a "Lacking" than a "Flaw", back then. However, when it was released, it was neither a Flaw or a Lacking because 3D models and Looking up and down didn't exist yet.

It's hard to say DOOM was flawed. Essentially, though, all human creations are flawed. Humans aren't perfect, so why would their creations be perfect?
They aren't! Whether that "Flaw" is actually annoying to you or not, or whether that "Flaw" doesn't even come to your attention until years later, it doesn't change the fact that it was just something they didn't do.
Sometimes you could blame them, as they were negligent. Other times, it's technology that out-does them.

Anyway, the point of all this is, that you can't argue that a game is flawless. It's all opinion, and where others see nothing you may see an ugly sore. :picard:

Which is why the "5 Star" rating doesn't really make sense.
Of course, in the sense of it as a rating system, it would proclaim "Absolutely flawless! No faults! Nothing Wrong!" Sometimes, though, it's simply used as another way of saying "Great. Very good. Exceptional."

I personally don't take it all too seriously. (Possibly contrarily to my "Wall O' Text" here) After all, Everything is so subjective. The inclusion of machine guns in Medal of Honor (In reference to the first MoH game, on PS1) may make some people like the game more. (That would be most people)
Some people could immediately stop playing the game for that very same reason, because they can't stand MG's. (LOL)

Sometimes when rating a game, it's more "What do you think of it, from a semi-subjective point of view" than "What should you say of it".
Like, I've rated a game 10 out of ten before. Was I saying the game was "Flawless"? Well, in my state of mind, in my opinion, perhaps.
Probably not though. I am more conveying the fact that "There are very few games which I like this much", not "This game is literally perfect in every way".
Perhaps "This is one of my All-time Favorites".

In some cases, I've written a review with Gamespot's Rating system, where I gave my personal rating, and my rating based on all the comparisons that could made in the gaming world. Ironically, I looked up that title, (Iron Man 2 for Wii) and my "Game World" rating was within .5 points of theirs. Amazing.
The reason I gave a separate rating for each?
Well, in my mind, my personal rating was going to be much too jaded to use it as a formal rating. (I've never actually had any reviews published, though)
For instance, I absolutely love certain movie/comic/game franchises. Like Iron Man. I love Iron man so much, and games in general, that even a mediocre effort would retain my interest and love.
I will always rate a 5 out of ten game 7.8 because of my franchise love.
It's just the way I am. Possibly even higher than that.

Part of it:
I haven't played the latest, most ultimate games.

Another Part of It:
I tend to like games in general a bit more than most people.

Sometimes I will rate something 10 points. Other times I may say 2.5.
All in all it varies from if I'm trying to form an accurate game community opinion, or my personal opinion.

However, yes, in most situations I will give a game I really like a 8 or 9. However, like I said, my personal usage of "10" can sometimes be "This game is one of my all-time favorites", not "Flawless". This would be why I would give things like "Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast" and "Delta Force: Black Hawk Down" 10 out of 10.
To sum up, If I say 10, I mean 10 in my personal opinion. "Flawless" in someone's personal opinion is quite different than "Flawless" in someone's "Grand scheme of the world" opinion. In my mind, if I find no fault or annoyance with a Flaw of a game's, it might as well not be a flaw. That doesn't change the fact that it's there, and others will acknowledge that. However, if I were to shift gears in one of my favorite games, I could very come up with some things that are flawed or messed up.
Not as many as someone who dislikes the genre, but I would still have a few, since remember, most of my "10" games are 5 to 8.9 games from the eyes of the world.

Anyway, it's all so hokey, but reviews and ratings are simply for enjoyment and learning more about the game, and getting a feel for how good it is from a critic's/another person's standpoint.

Personally, I think they should use Gamespot's 10 point score system with .1 .2 .3 etc.! I would at least do increments of .5 on a scale of ten.
:idea:
Also, it would be cool if they had a "World of Gaming" rating and a "This Reviewer's" rating. unfortunately that idea doesn't fit in too well because all of the games being reviewed are old DOS games. It could work, though. maybe a "World of Retro Gaming Comparisons" rating? ;)

As I said, if ANYONE has any cool action, possibly other genre, games I could review on Abandonia or for Abandoned Times, PLZ contact me @ StaaViinsZ@Yahoo.com or PM here. Heck, leave a guestbook post on my website www.kittengalaxy.webs.com or www.staaviinsz.webs.com!
Reply to a comment of mine on Yahoo! Even comment on a Photo of mine on Flickr (StaaViinsZ) or find me on Facebook! (Starvio Steves)

Now I've written my own Wall Of Text, (WOT, pronounced WHOT when you see the wall I've created in your face, LOL!) just for Abandonia. Oh yeah, and there's that guy I was replying to, hmm, let me scroll to the top... oh yeah, heh, "The Bloodhawk".

Ain't No Joke, When Your Nose Gets Poked.

StaaViinsZ (Pronounced Stavins Z, not "stah-vi-i-nsz")

Just a suggestion: if we are reviewing old games, why not using some of the old ways.

For instance, local magazine had 4 tracks of values (usually from 1 to 10) for each game. I mean, that was before 2000 and they finally switched to 100 points system. But I saw similar things in other countries as well.

Why valuing game from 1 t0 10 or 100, when you could/should value graphics, sound, gameplay and similar. And you try to value that according to the time that the game was released, an people will get better idea of the game.

As I mentioned local magazine (back in first half of 90es) every game had same 3 tracks: visual (graphics etc), audio (music, quality of effects) and controls (speed, hardness and similar). The fourth track was different for the game's genre. Platforms and actions had atmosphere, adventures had scenario quality, simulations had some kind of realism/gameplay valuing etc.

We don't have to use different tracks for different genres, we could simply value atmosphere instead of controls and gameplay as general satisfaction of "how the game goes", and keep it at 4 tracks. Or 3 or 5, whatever we choose, those games were reviewed in many magazines this way at that time, why not do it in similar way?

If we are valuing games with single value, then 1-10 with half values (5.6, 6.5, 7.5) is enough IMO. But why don't we give more info if we can?

Sounds to me you are talking about "Svet Kompjutera" ;)

I was always for descriptive rating to back up the score, like "for that period, graphics were far above average. sound effects are monotonous and don't seem to relate to the action performed. It's a very good story, with many different way to finish the game. Just a single save game slot is disappointing. For those reasons, I score it 7 out 10"

So, some people may not agree with the final score - it is after all subjective. But at least they know what prompted me to give it.

I'm also against half a star rule. I know that 5 star scale with half star option translates into 10 star scale with full stars, but to me 9 out of 10 sounds better than 4.5 out of 5. But that's just me.

I agree with Pex. Having reviewer's reasons for score is good. Having obligatory scales is bad - because different reviewers have different ideas what it must mean, and as it's scales, no one feels obliged to give more or less explanations.

And agreed with scores too. Partial scores exactly the same as full scores multiple on 10. Why to have 6.9, if you can have 69? Either you are in discrete numbers - or you simply need bigger scale. (For me, 10 is enough, but, well, why not 100?).

I think 0-10 is best. 1-5 is too coarse, and %... What could be the difference between 74 or 77 out of 100? None.

...but if you skip numerical rating, your review won't be considered by review aggregators ;)

He-He...
 

Me: Has anyone read that Wall of Text I posted earlier?

Anyone Else: NO.

Me: Why not?

Anyone Else: How did you even write that thing?

Me: I was inspired.

Anyone Else: What do you mean "Inspired"?

Me: Oh, you know, you just get into a mood to express yourself and start writing and you end up writing something massive.

Anyone Else: No, I don't know.

Me: Pfpht. You must not be a very good writer then.

Anyone Else: Pfpht. You're lame.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

You to everyone: Has anyone read that Wall of Text I posted earlier?

Me: Yes. I read it.

You to me: Really?

Me: What, you weren't expecting that, did you?

You: No no, I did, it's just....

Me, interrupting: Why writing entire wall when you doubt yourself that many people will read it?

You: It's not like that. I was thinking that people here are writers, you know... and they understand when someone express himself and comes up with something massive. At least a good writers do.

Me: So you're practically saying that only writer that writes something massive is a good writer, correct? Should we start writing 10 pages for each review to make it better then?

You: No, wait, stop. You're twisting my words around...

Me: Yes, I am.

You: Pfpht... Well, if read that wall of text, why didn't you posted some comment on it, or on some part of it?

Me: No need. Why should I? I wanted to give my own suggestion and opinion, just like you. And yes, there was no need to write a novel instead of few rows when all you wanted to say is "I don't like 5 stars, review is and should be something personal, I like bigger scale better, practically 100 points or at least 1-10 with .5, in other words, 20 points system."

You:... I wa....

Me: Instead you could have used your time and express yourself by writing a review for the game that we don't currently have on site. Any title from Approved Requests would be fine, and there are surely some games you loved to play that are approved for abandonia that you could review, without having to play something new to review. And if "mood of expressing" takes you while you write that review, do go back and do your best to shorten it. Review should not be short by default, I agree, I wrote some lengthy ones myself, but it should be as short as possible, and many times it is possible.

Now, seriously, there are tons of games that could be added to abandonia. I would prefer if you find some game you already know and like and you check that it is approved for our site, make some screenshots, write a review and create your tread (with your username) in Offers forum and state there anything you mean to provide. Don't wait for us to tell you what to review. Simply review something you would like to. We could give you assignment if you really insist, but there surely are few games you would review on your own.

Enough said. I look forward receiving your reviews.

Heh.
 

LOL I TAKE IT YOU READ IT?! AAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, not that funny.
Speaking on the matter of submission and reviews...

I was trying to find something to review that was in the "Approved" section, but I've found nothing so far. Everything either already has a review or isn't listed on the site... Any suggestions could help.

As for submissions, I'm planning on doing one of those soon, if the game is indeed "Abandoned". It's called Breach 3. We'll see. LOL though, I knew that follow-up post of mine was gonna be a slap in the face to forum users... heh, not exactly the best thing if you want to make friends. Which I do! :smile2:
I mostly just thought it was funny, though. Nothing too serious. :picard:
However, I could also come back and say your post was a "Mini-Pamphet-Sized-Novel", when you could have just said that... Okay, that's just a stupid thing to say. I'm not even gonna go through with it.

I did, however, notice while I was browsing through the site:

Quite a few mild grammar errors
and
A few games with reviews that came up as Spanish, which I presume must be "Spanish Only" reviews?

Anyway, I hope to have more friendly convos in the future, hope my previous post didn't tick you off that much. Friends? lol.

Question that you may or may not know:
Is the Grammar squad full or something? I've gotten to the listing for it, and posted, but many other peoples' posts and my post go unanswered.

Also, If this last "Novel" annoyed you, I probably wouldn't recommend reading the one I posted on X-wing Collector's Edition about Abandonware. It's out of place, and it's long, and could be "Offensive" to some Abandonware advocates. Still, though, every post I make is my real opinion. I don't write them to spam people. Even so, I can't keep up the Novels forever, so don't worry, I'll make some more decently sized posts later on.

This place is a really good forum, and thanks for not cursing!

Small Addition
 

I'm glad you express your opinion, and didn't feel the need to comment on mine. Ha, I guess I'm just a glory hog. :picard:

Sometimes I'm not sure how some of the site works... I've actually yet to see a game listed without a review at all. I guess I'll figure it out as I go along.
I also need to learn how this "Disc Image" or ".ISO" stuff works. I tried once but failed. Heh, there's always the DOS-Box Manual for that.
Thanks, StaaViinsZ

I'm not of the tl;dr generation.

Still, I'd recommend you to write more to the point, less wandering thoughts.

Hehe...
 

Tl;Dr?

Heh, if you say so. As an annoying quote of mine says:

"Present your request on a silver platter, and I may consider it."

LOL maybe I should put that in my signature.

Seriously, though, the wall wasn't really necessary, but once I had written it all, it would've been a shame to let it sit around on my hardrive in a word file. Then again, maybe it would've been a blessing to the forum... LOL.

Anyway, I'll take a note of that... I can't promise it'll affect my writing that much, but point taken.

Here you went into provocative area. ;)

I read your post too. And exactly like marco I can say "Yeah, I see, you don't like 5 stars, and thinks that all ratings are subjective... so what?" it not worth to post.

And I think, everyone else who seen your post thought something similar.

You also didn't write any questions, requests, offers or something that would require answer... Until you start to provoke people, that is.

So what did you expect? :)

If you want my opinion... well, remove half of sarcasm of marco, and you'll get it. Interesting, but too long and watery. :)

(BTW, I am IM-man. ICQ, AIM, MSN, Google Talk or any other Jabber variation, and I can speak hours along. Facebook? Email? Yahoo? Meh.)
If you cannot found anything for you here, you can offer something different. In the "Offers". Simply, eh? :)
There must be not "exclusives", except English ones. I am not in full power here, but I can fix consistency errors, if someone will show it to me. PM me with list of this "spanish-only" games, and I will check them. I cannot check grammars as I am Russian, unfortunately.
Oh, it was quite friendly answers you got so far, I can assure you. :)
I think, Grammar squad is pretty dead long ago. Or at least in deep slumber. We'll see, if your post will be able to wake someone. ;)

Okay!
 

Well, I guess I got the attention I wanted... for a bad thing...:no:

It's nice to know people actually read it. I'm actually surprised. Even if you guys didn't, though, it wasn't like I should expect it. I mean, If I was in your shoes, and another person had posted something that long, would I read it all? Who knows, but probably not. It's funny though, because I make so many senseless comments that when I write something, I almost expect someone else to be the same and say something equally as ridiculous.
Which doesn't make sense in of itself. Although, when I say that, I'm certainly not trying to write up a list of to-do's for fellow forum'ers! :huh:
In other words, even though I may sometimes expect that in the back of my mind, I in no way actually expect it from anyone else, so don't take it as offensive. :hello:

I like that everyone here is more about constructive criticism than beating me up over this-- Thanks for that! :D

Anyway, let's put this aside us before someone actually DOES explode. LOL. :lol:
On other matters:

What are you saying exactly with "Offer" something? I'm unfamiliar with the "Offers" section. I know about the "Requests" area, though. Do you mean request a game?

:idea:By the way, Yahoo! has a IM service...

I'll see what I can do about finding those games that just had Spanish reviews again. We'll see what happens.:D

Believe me, I know that they're friendly answers. :doh:

Let's hope for the best for the grammar squad! :mhh:

No, I mean Offers. Just above "Requests" on my page layout.
Unfortunately, it would be 5th IM-service in my list, and 3rd with only one friend in it. Can you, possibly, use something else? :)
I will be here. ;)

]
LOL what if we just kept replying like this... I quote you, you quote me. It eventually gets to the point where we have to quote each other quoting to make it work! LOL!:lol:
Yeah so I checked out the Offers, and it was there, I had just forgotten for a bit. :omg:

As for other IM's... uh... LOL FACEBOOK CHAT HAHA!!:bleh1:

Uh... can't think of much else... unless you count Twitter.
I haven't really taken the opportunity to subscribe to any specifically IM services, since I never really wanted to use one or had anyone to use it with.:no:

That would be cool if we could have a group with 3 other people from Abandonia and you and me in it. (A Chat Group?):doh:

Lastly, many thanks for including my smilies in your quotes! Kudos to the man who preserves the original work of art!:lol:
Now for those Spanish things...

Nothing here
 

Just posting again to subscribe to this thread...

Ah, so you not so talkative then. Well, there is always Steam chat then. I am Smiling Spectre there, as usual. ;)
Head of theme->Thread tools->Subscribe. ;)

Ahh...
 

Ahh, so that's how you subscribe without posting! very useful!

It's not that I'm not talkative, it's more that I never had anyone who I knew to use it with, and that I don't really like to stay on my computer all day. Like, literally.

Ok, you two, please go back to the topic, and continue chatting elsewhere.

Just to make it public here as well - if the game is in Spanish, it still must have English review. Until recently, non-English game were rejected for our site, unless you can play them without knowing the language (usually some sports, racing or platform game). Those non-English games are treated same as English, they needed a review.

But from now on we will be adding non-English games as well. If there is English version, then non-Englihs version should be placed in Extras. If game has no English version, than game may still be hosted with some info on the page which language it is.

Sorry, marco, I didn't notice that this thread is not in "flame" section. *going silent*