Crime Life Games?
 

Are there any games out there that any one knows that basically haves you in a city working from lowly street peddler up to a credible crime presence? And with other gangs to (whether other street ones or mafia, triads, irish folks, etc?)

influences to my question;

http://www.ablenet.org/drug_dealer this game

and running around Grand Theft Auto 4 finding other gangsters to have shootouts with and pretending im a big time gangsta $$$

There was a gangster type game that took place in during the prohibition era us where you build a mafia family in the city, but i didn't like it cause it was all mission based, i want like, a sand box type of game. Know any?

There are the two Mafia games. I also remember a game called Gangster, it had a sequel too.

Well i mean that has you running things, not a mission based game. Gangsters 2 is an alright game, but it's all mission and time based so it's kind of annoying

Gangster 1 was much more of simulation game, I don't remember there being any missions to it.

You mean like King of Chicago?