dont disagree with ya there. all of the new RPGS that get released nowadays are crappy hype fests. Even Oblivion was kinda crappy, and i always loved the Elder Scrolls series since Arena.

but since the topic creator asked after Ultima Underworld type of games (First-Person View Dungeon Crawler) i gathered that he wanted the First -Person View gaming and would be interested in testing other "RPG" games where you can use FPV (First-Person View), and since Arx Fatalis was mentioned earlier i instead hinted that Gothic 3 had FPV by choice, who knows, maybe he likes it?

never intended for my post to become a slugfest with anyone.
i shall go back and just read the posts from now on, easier that way and no one needs to get angry on me. ;)

/Agree, on both counts. RPGs these days seem to be missing the whole STORY thing, which has made many RPGs classics. From a strict standpoint of gameplay, however (and not considering Arx Fatalis), the Rlder Scrolls series is the closest cousin to UW - They are both designed to play in FP perspective, and have engines that directly interact with your environment (picking up items, using terrain to your advantage, etc.) But yeah, Oblivion's lack of story-telling depth and it's razor-fine shallow main story doomed it to "pretty hack and slash RPG" status.

don't mind Piggy, he is always like that. :laugh:

It's not so much the story, but the simplification and hand holding in the gameplay. There's no reward or satisfaction since the developers are constantly handing everything to do.

Remember the the early cornerstones of PC RPGs didn't have much in the terms of story. The early Ultimas (I-III) hardly had much story in them, nor did the venerable Wizardry series. The narrative revolution in RPGs didn't really occur until the late eighties and it gained prominence in the 90s when the technology allowed developers to put more into their games to represent their stories.

Even the SSI Goldbox games didn't always have amazing stories, the same goes for the Might and Magic games.
Story is important, but RPGs were never really founded on that, it became more popular with the release of games like Ultima VI, Fallout and Baldur's Gate that emphasized heavy story telling.

the first Might and Magics, like 1-5, actually had a good background story that you could follow troughout the series (Sheltem, Ancients etc).

As far as I remember they were incredibly generic kill foozle stories, despite the backstory.

Remember that TES has extensive backstory as well, but those games have shallow plots. There's a big difference, backstory doesn't matter as much since it's only flavoring.

Backstory is only extremely important if it influences the gameplay, as in Fallout where knowledge of Harold's creation can lead you to the Master.
My point was that the plot was threadbare, the backstory in the early M&Ms can be compared to reading the introductory story sections in a manual.

Even Warcraft had a complex backstory, not that much of it was in the game's real plot.

well most RPGS are generic Kill Foozle stories, as far as i can remember.

Exactly, so nuts to the people who think RPGs are all about stories.

they are about role playing and not story playing...

i am not really interested in reading long notes in foreign language. or even my mother's tongue. i am interested in doing everything i can and that that has some consequences to character and that the world react to my actions.

if i wanted only story i would do adventure games...

Definitely Gregor, that's exactly my belief, roleplaying is making your own story and playing your own role that you wish to.

It's why I loved Ultima IV, in the end your goal is to become the Avatar and be the living representation of the virtues, but how you did it was entirely up to you.