Abandonia's current status and future: Questions and Answers
 

I just wanted to have an open topic where we could get all the facts about where AB stands now.

There seems to me to be a lot of "second-hand" truths out there, hear-says, which are clogging up the issue.

One thing that remains unclear due to contradictionary statements, is whether AB has been paid for or not. Surely it can not possibly have been paid for while at the same time not have been paid for. That would be logically impossible.

There are all these questions regarding AB now and ahead I feel there are too many answers to to make sense, or too many theories and worried ideas, not so much about simple facts.

One word: This topic will be STRICTLY about Abandonia as a Site, and NOT about people, whoever they are. I'm no mod, but I ask the moderators/admins to trash any posts that are pointing at certain members instead of the facts regarding this SITE..

I want this to be an open topic for all to see, so that every member can see for themselves what's going on.

As for the posts themselves, well, I hope someone can start by telling what the status is on ownership and covering the costs. Just remember, a thing can't possibly be and not be at the same time. It will become glaringly obvious if someone's posts result in an arguement whether or not a statement is true. Stick to what you KNOW are FACTS, and if necessary, provide some evidence to back it up if anyone question your statements.

my source is a personal message from Romano explaining what happened, you might not believe it (some paranoid of you there), but i think he is the closes person to Kosta, they were together on holidays and has no reason to lie or whatever

i was told that what happened is that Kosta left abandonia because he had to move in his life, he has a full time job, a girl, etc, he just did not have time to work on this site anymore (and i don't blame him, neither nobody should)

so now you might be wondering who the hell paid for the server and who's the owner. it wasn't nor Romano neither Kosta, the server was paid by studentis. i don't know contract details but i thinik that abandonia as a comunity is profitable from ads, that's why they keep it (or not? i don't konw)

this is by the way what Romano meant by "anarchy", that we don't have anyone above us, there is no Kosta because he left and never comes back, we are on our own

but as Romano left, he nominated David for site admin and Dave said that he has some server access and there will probably be an option to develop the site and maybe we'll be able to fix bugs, so there's also some good news

Well, all site's admins have those access, but you know we aren't expert programmers.
It's still a miracle that we can edit the forum and make some improvements...so first we will finish with forums and we will work on the crew, after that we could start thinking about it.

Ok, this is someting solid to work on.

What about this: Start a recruitment among our members, people who aren't aware of all this may have the skills we need. Would it be considered spam if AB sent out a mail to each of our members (or thereabout), asking if anyone out there are skilled at whatever it is we need? Or, should we put up a post on our front page, asking people to apply for these positions? We could then choose those we trust will do the best job for AB.

unsolicited email = spam :/

IMHO anyone that cares enough to do voluntary work, will learn about this on his own.

BTW if you need help badly, I can help, although I'm no expert, but I could.
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I also think the forums are more appropriate than the shoutbox. That is what is to be discussed openly, because then there are the staff forums. The shoutbox is for small talk, it's a bad format to inform or to discuss with the users, and if you didn't want to broadcast the info you wouldn't be using the public shoutbox to start with.

I of course have no priviledged information. Anyway AFAIK nobody else has, including the admins (!), nobody except Kosta HIMself and NObody else. (Understood?)

Since Romano has been mentioned already, I'll say that he stated, when he posted his Christmas pictures with Kosta, that they had not discussed Abandonia. You're free to believe his lies though, it won't change the heart of the situation. But he sure has no more right to "nominate" admins than the latest newbie. I'm done commenting Romano, since it's off topic, and I don't really want to any more, but I just want to make it crystal clear that I do not believe anything Romano said or will say.
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The situation has been immovably the same since the site "upgrade" and Kosta's disappearance. Abandonia.com is hosted at Studentis:

http://whois.domaintools.com/abandonia.com

Studentis is obviously providing the hosting, since the site remains on line. But nobody has paid for any number of years in advance. Why? Because that kind of thing simply never happens, that's not how hosting works. Besides AFAIK Studentis doesn't pay an extern hosting provider, they're the ones with the server themselves, only they'll have costs out of it. It is possible however, almost sure I'd say, that there was a compromise from Studentis to pay for host the site during a certain period. (Anyway Studentis hasn't honoured all its compromises I think--concerning server hardware.)

As for the exact terms of the contract between Kosta and Studentis, we can't know the details if Kosta won't tell us. But we could safely guess that it must include a compromise of hosting AB during a period of time. We don't know how long, maybe four years, maybe not. (And after that period Studentis might decide take the site off line even if we finally manage to make it well again?)

As I said, I think the staff definitely ought to contact Studentis. AFAIK they're onto it, as well as other matters. I think they should establish the same level of contact Kosta had, since Kosta has left Abandonia indefinitely. And full access. Then the site could function normally again, which includes the pages themselves being fixed, and stopping this derangement. (There will always be forum drama, we just have to make sure there's an abandonware site behind it.)

David was given site admin permissions a long time before, as he needed them to help users who encountered the "disappearing PoE" bug.

And to update OwList and other ;)

I know, I haven't said anithing against that, and I certainly consider David apt for the position, and we all know more than one active admin is necessary. I was talking about other member, whose name I needn't repeat...

Thank you.

It's easy: we know nothing, nothing changed, it is still working like it was before.

What more is there to add?

Is it new that we don't know for how long the servers are paid for? No.

Is it new that we are on our own since Kosta left several months ago? No.

Is it new that we still don't have full power to do with the site as we please? I'd hope that David have some answers to us since he just revealed himself as the "nominee", but so far from what he said I'd have to say: No.

I, too, would like to have answers instead of speculation. That would be a lot of time saved instead of wasted.

what?

servers are paid for 4 years

and we did know that kosta is away but know we konw he's not comming back

[Removed by Titan]

Well, I'm glad some things have cleared up. On the programming side, I can find a book on and learn whatever language the site is programmed in (PHP?). That is, assuming that I'm allowed to. :D

Wow... I stay away from the forums for a while, and it seems all Hell broke loose. Bannings, admins vanishing, in-fighting amongst site team members... all we need is a girl who can't decide who to marry, and we'd have a soap opera fit for TV.


Anyway, I'm not a programmer. But I can offer some graphics help if it's needed/wanted.

Don't look at me as a savior, I was promoted months ago because I was able to help and fix few things, I'm not a candidate to substitute Kosta or other admins.
I'm a student that is trying to improve this place during free time.
Site's controls are like a maze, I simply said that we can do more than we expected. As you may have noticed yesterday we have found a huge security problem related to Pms, if we are lucky the old (but new ;)) forum Pm system will be back.

There should be no problem with getting back the forum PMs in a short time, I think we can tell at least that much to the people who haven't been tuned to the Shoutbox.

The site PMs, which where the only ones available since the downgrade, must remain disabled at least until the site can be fixed, because in short they're even more borked than the average site feature.

The only problem why forum PMs aren't enabled yet is some mixup, but Data is making a script to fix it, and actually I for one wouldn't see anything wrong in just purging all PMs, they have been already inaccessible for a long time now. I'm not saying everybody will agree. Anyway I think Data said it's doable and will be done shortly?

EDIT: According to Data the PMs are indeed going to be purged. But it's still script work because of lack of full direct access. :notrust:

Dont get it
 

If the infamous Kosta is not going to return , I dont understand why he cant give all the info to someone that does have time to care fr this great site. In my experience its a simple matter to allow unlimited access. You just have to have the right codes and info, which Kosta should still have. I have quite a bit of experience with computers and would be glad tp offer any assistance that I can to improve this site. BUT it seems to my old self that the first step is to have a clear chain of command. We must have a leader that can do anything that needs to be done to the site. If the problem is that this kosta dude doesnt want to give anyone else the power, then we must find a way to get it. We must have someone in charge. That would have prevented all this asinine crapola that has been occuring here recently. Any soldier will tell you that without a clear command group soldiers die. I dont want Abandonia to die. Here is an old Army expression for yall to think about.
If you are in charge, Take charge.:ghostrider:

:weird: If you are soldiers, someone will die.

Correct, but Kosta was barely reachable for last year. What you are proposing is being discussed, however.

Chain of command, indeed. However, a bit different than how you imagine it.

When you rely on a single person to do something important or posess certain skills or knowledge that are neccesary to proceed, it's all fine as long as that person can be relied on to be available. When they can't be relied upon to do so anymore - or worse, suddenly and unexpectedly vanish for good - there is nobody who can replace them.

And that's one thing we'll have to do our best to prevent from happening.

The problem is not that he doesn't want to give it to anyone but that it hasn't occurred to him as an option before.

Err... maybe it's due to my young age, but I don't quite understand this statement. If Kosta didn't think of anointing someone with his previous privileges, than what exactly was his proposition? Closing the site?

please stop speculating. it might lead to incorrect assumptions

I'm not speculating (the "closing down scenario" was a bit of a joke, actually), I'm just asking a question. That's still allowed, right? ;)

There was no proposition.
In other words, he didn't consider the full consequences of his prolonged absence before, and as such did not see any need to give the access permissions to another person besides himself.
Simple enough?

I have no idea whatever is going in the background of Abandonia, but from what i read on this thread, the original admin that just deserted the place without a word or care and none really correctly replacing him with full access , the non updates, etc... what is happening begin to sounds the same with what happened to HOTU.

I just hope Abandonia will not end like HOTU did, it was such a great site before the bizarre drama of the last years, having it ending in nothingness like HOTU had been since 2006 would be a shame.

I no longer worry about the will to keep AB going :) There has been a lot of work being done lately and more is being done as I type this. There are problems that need to be solved, but I believe there is enough will around here to have those problem solved the best way possible.

Not quite. There are two things we don't have.
1. Access to contents of the main server (the one hosting the site and the forum).
2. Direct access to site and forum databases.
Lack of these abilities simply prevents us from resolving certain issues with the site and the forum (of course, we're trying to work around them whenever possible).
Basically, Abandonia can continue in its current state.

Not quite. There are three things you don't have.
1. Access to contents of the main server
2. Direct access to site and forum databases.
3. Drupal programming knowledge.

Wrong, the third one is time.

We can either learn it ourselves or find someone who already has the neccesary skill set. As such, it's a non-factor.

I have been out of the loop lately so don't shoot me for asking but from a contributors point of view I have to ask the question .. How do we know that Abandonia is not going to simply disappear one day and not come back? Sounds like no one has a clue about Studentis and whatever level of commitment they have. Writing reviews and creating screen shots does take time and effort and I would like to feel confident that the effort is not going to be wasted.

I don't have as much time these days but if the bugs are getting worked out I have a lot I can contribute.

5th is totally correct. For Drupal: Knowledge is all it takes. Access is another thing and a problem we need to find a solution for. As for time, we have time, for the time being, meaning if we don't get preoccupied with nonsense, 4 years should get us somewhere.

EDIT: JMB got there first. This post was aimed at the posts prior to his.

About a hundred thousand SLOC can not be a "non-factor" :)

If I understand you well, you would like to have access to source code, and not knowing anything about coding.

As you like to say "Abandonia Forums are not democracy", I can say "Abandonia is not open source". Unfortunately :D

In a different equation, maybe.
For all the mysticism you seem to perceive in it, programming is just a set of skills. Nothing more, nothing less.
The code can be modified in portions.
There can be more than a single person working on it.

Not "I would like to". "We need to".
If you prefer having a completely bugged site, your choice.
We don't.

I didn't say anything about open source. What are you getting at?

Hm actually the Drupal platform, that Abandonia is based on, _is_ open source. :P (All interpreted languages--as opposed to compiled ones--are open source in a way... And AFAIK Drupal is not about writing code, it's a CMS.) Anyway, not really sure how software licencing is relevant here, at any rate. Drupal can be learnt, yes of course. And I guess whoever has access to the server will be able to see and modify Abandonia's Drupal system.

http://php.opensourcecms.com/scripts...p?scriptid=191

You can try a demo of Drupal here. Just log in to the admin page. The password and login is mentioned on the page. Should give some information on how it works.

I had to test it myself for a school project last thursday. Its kind of a complicated and it takes time to learn, or thats what I've said to my teacher when he asked my opinion of it.

Studentis and kosta might have added a lot of extra modules to support the things abandonia needs. The move to drupal took several months of coding.

I think Romano was trying to tell you that the Studentis might not be very willing to give you access to their written modules for abandonia.

As said these things could help but are not necessary :p
We are solving problems and working on the site using a little of html, css, and discovering day by day our "hidden powers".
We can create pages for the site, add services and change forum's layout.
All under developement.

That's the internet; nothing is forever (please excuse the sarcastic use of forever). You have to redefine your thinking of wasted; I for example don't really know why I translated reviews here.

Well that's not exactly encouraging news if none has any access on the server, its content and, the forum, and the original admin left without leaving it to a successor and apparently does not care anymore.

Because out of just no new content to the abandonia game list can be made, it just mean the current company owning the server, Studentis if i understood well this thread, whoever they are could just cut it anytime and nothing could be backed up because none has access to the content ?

We don't have direct access, but we can use the server and add new content to the site. We can update Abandonia with games, extras and improve it.
Also we can backup the site and the forum.

Random guess: because you thought it would be an awesome idea to have this site available to your native language because it helps people who don't read english to be able to access the site, and because you thought AB was an awesome site to begin with?

Nothing in those two statements changed much. I hardly know why it would make any difference... The site and the idea itself are still awesome.

Eagle of fire is right,that will be a cool idea,and somebody can learn spanish easly :amused: or backwards y can learn gramar skill about inglish :nuts:

Wrong.
Site server is one thing.
The file server - where we keep the game archives - is a different matter.
Forum can be backed up without any problem.
File server can be backed up without any problem.
Site can be backed up - but only "kind of" - using a webspider. It's not a full backup, just a "dead" offline copy, but can be used to rebuild the place if anything seriously bad happens.

Surely then, the only option is to soldier on until whatever contract with studentis runs out, then simply find a new host or rehost with studentis under a new monarchy, thus regaining full access to the site?

If we don't have full access to the site server, but the site code is bugged anyway, perhaps starting from fresh is a better idea in the long run? I mean, we have 4 years to perfect a new site, right?
Surely this should be seen as an opportunity!
Or am I missing something here?

abandonia has a name, it would be difficult=/

Once the contract runs out wont the name be available again though?

and who's gonna pay our servers if not studentis? :p

I'm sure we could work something out; if Kosta managed it, why on earth can't we?

Cash
 

If it came down to it Myself and others, I am sure, could pony up enough to pay for the server.

I appreciate your suggestions and your will to find a solution, but now this is pure speculation guys, we answered you and told you our thoughts.
Could you focus all these energies on the site instead? :)
Thanks

A fresh start would be attempted if forced on us, but you shouldn't consider it too lightly. Money is by no means the most critical aspect. Managing a big site like this, not to mention building it from scratch, demands a huge dedication. I guess that's why Kosta left, his position here was incompatible with his current occupation.

If we consider the Abandonia magazine as an example, the first issue could by now have been finished even by a single person. There were many people willing to help here and there, but in the end the project is stranded. Needless to say, building a site like Abandonia is a trillion times more demanding.

Kosta put a lot of work into it and if he's done with it, I think our best option is trying to preserve what we have, and fixing what we can when necessary. But even for that, full access is needed. Or from another point of view, someone has to have full access, that's obvious for any website, moreover one that wasn't finished or debugged.

comparing the abandonia to abandonned times is totally unballanced. i believe people would act more dedicated to building a new abandonia than to some magazine. for example i would be gald to help with the site, but i have no need to donate to the magazine or whatsover

but yeah there's been a lot of work done with building this website we should concentrate on this, and maybe in time we'll be even able to fix bugs=S

The problem was that people had the material which never got to me in the end so I was endlessly waiting for content that was out there somewhere. I'm still willing to make the layout and contribute but I can't write all the articles - that was never the point. If I'm to still receive the material, I'm still up for continuing and maybe once the first issue is made, it will make people be a bit more serious about it.

You're missing practically everything.
Right now we don't know a) who holds the legal rights to the site's name b) who holds the legal rights to ownership of the site c) what happens when the 4 years run out.

That is a definite no. Someone owns the copyright. Whether this is Kosta or Studentis, we don't know.

Abandoned Times failed because each and every time someone we _depended_on_ to do something critical has either disappeared or refused to perform in their duties, taking all materials they collected along with them.

Things are starting to clear somewhat. We don't know full details, but Kosta apparently doesn't want to have anything to do with Abandonia anymore.
Which is weird, but also explains why nothing was done with the bugs for a long time. Kosta was the person who was supposed to inform the Studentis support team about things that require fixing.
When he stopped doing that, the bugfixes - understandably - also ceased.

Does that mean that we now have no contact with Studentis, or that we are now able to contact them directly?

here is my humble opinion.

domain Abandonia.com is registered by Studentis group (as every one can verify by via whois), whose aim isn't surely to preserve old games or support the abandonware scene. they mantain this site open because it's profitable, and this site is profitable because of your work (and a little bit of mine, too, for the italian translations... but this is another story). if this site will stop to be profitable, your access badge will expire.

hope to be wrong

noodles

This is still valid, this site is profitable.
As you can se we did huge steps forward recently...think positive ;)