One of our administrators posted once somewhere at Abandonia Forums: it is not democracy!
OK. I could agree. German wise saying is: democracy is to choose between plague and cholera!
So I was hoping he means that this forum has better shape than democracy.
Be incident to last events here I have a suggestion to our administrators and moderators.
Before closing particular topic it would be nice to open poll for no more than 24 hours with a simple question: Should I close this topic?
Nobody could make to much damage to Abandonia Forums in so short time, and we will have no more here abhorrent democracy, but more attractive direct democracy.

Please do not close this topic before making poll about it!

Forums aren't democrasy - simple :)

Agree! I am trying to get something better then democracy :D

I don't want this forum to be democracy. Because if it would, i would've banned long ago. <_<

The problem is that people would just continue arguing in the poll topic.

It is better to arguing 24 hours (and got public decision to stop) then arguing forever (after admin or mod decision) :whistling:

If a poll is what it takes to decide, then I think if a person comes under attack, and the poll is concerning that issue, then the offended person should at least get a double vote. Sorry, but I simply don't trust that we humans ever left the dark ages with its need for a good burning for recreational purposes.

Another question is what would happen on a forum visited by every sort of people (and the occational bot) if the rules were allowed to be liberalized? I think that with so many types here, it would be a wonder if loosely enforced rules didn't result in intentional or unintentional insults. All it takes is for one person to misunderstand, and then the moderators would be busy the following month trying to set things back straight. Trouble can occur in no time, and democracy is rather slow with all the polls and referendums.

Just something to think about.

I'm sorry I must repeat. I'm not pledge here FOR democracy! I'm against it :hypocrite:
Democracy is based on delegation of authority, and I'm speaking about powerless administration here :max:

It would not work. End of story.

So instead of closing a topic where flaming or other bad things are happening, we open a second topic to find out if the first should be closed?

And in the meantime flames continue to happen in the first topic? And most likely also in the new topic?

Do you realize how many topics we would end up creating each week? And would this "rule" apply to every single topic? Would there be exceptions? Where do you draw the line? Which topics could we close immediately, and which ones would we need to wait for approval for?

I'm sorry, but this idea will never work.


The reason this isn't a democracy is simple. It's not the user's site, it is Kosta's. He decides the future of the site, and the admins/moderators decide the future of topics.

This is a Dictatorship, pure and simple.

You are welcome to share your views, both positive and negative ones (as long as they are constructive), and by doing that influence the way we control the site and forum. That is the reason we have the Suggestions/Comments forum.

The whole forum system is based upon the principle of a few admins being in charge. Direct democracy doesn't really work within the coding framework of any forum system. Sure, you could have polls upon all decisions made within the forum, but that would still require a "puppet admin" that would carry these things out. Also, this principle is fine for the larger decisions but having a poll for every tiny little action that mods and admins carry out (the Admin CP keeps a log, every mod/admin here has logged up hundreds) is completely impractical.
Also, who would start the polls? Leaving it to the admins would still give them power (they could not create polls for things they don't want), allowing everyone to make them would just result in lots of threads voting to ban various members. In any case, the system is open to abuse by peopel creating multiple accounts in order to vote (entirely possible if a big issue such as the banning of a member comes up for vote).

While it would be possible to make large decisions by referendum, it is impossible to avoid the focusing of power in the hands of a few in a forum enviroment. And like David said, many knee-jerk, reactionary decisions would pass if this system were put in place.

Direct democray is a noble principle, but the fact is that forums, as they stand, are inherently hierarchical.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom Henrik @ Nov 21 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]267864[/snapback]</div>OK. Clear as day. Power, force... :bleh:

And why bluff us !? Every admin can open poll in the same topic. There is no need to open new one :ph34r:

*edit*
Before you said "End of story" have you consult Kosta !?

I've found that a good forum is based upon a meritocratic system. That is to say that the people who perfom actions that warrant merit, receive the merit whether it be extra privileges such as moderation or simply respect.

Admins should be chosen on their technical ability to manage the forum and add new features wherever necessary for the forum. This system ensures that the best people for the jobs, get the jobs and people are more likely to respect a competant person in a position than someone who was just put there because they're someone else's friend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JoM @ Nov 21 2006, 12:32 AM) [snapback]267868[/snapback]</div>Excellent point. We have six administrators. And in my opinion only two of them are competent. If nothing will be changed in the future, that will be disastrous for Abandonia :blink:

Well, all the administrators were appointed by me and were people who I have my full trust in. Of course, just because someone is a good friend of mine, or has been an exemplary member, doesn't mean that person makes a good admin. At the moment I see no needs for changes, but if you feel that certain admins are repeatedly doing a bad job, point those mistakes out to us, saying what was done wrong, and we will discuss each of those between each other. I'm sure that any of our admins would resign themselves if they thought they were doing a bad job. Of course, if you have any things to point out, do it privately by sending PMs to all the admins.

Just to make it clear - I wasn't talking about this forum specifically as having only encountered the current forum team over the past 2 days I can hardly pass judgement.

Excuse me ladies and gentlemen,

Man: Well I object to your...you automatically treat me like an inferior!
Arthur: Well I *am* king...
Man: Oh, king, eh, very nice. And 'ow'd you get that, eh?
By exploiting the workers! By 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.
If there's ever going to be any progress,--
Woman: Dennis! There's some lovely filth down 'ere!
(noticing Arthur) Oh! 'Ow'd'ja do?
Arthur: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose
castle is that?
Woman: King of the 'oo?
Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: 'Oo are the Britons?
Arthur: Well we all are! We are all Britons! And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we 'ad a king! I thought we were autonomous collective.
Man: (mad) You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship! A
self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
Woman: There you go, bringing class into it again...

I guess that says it all really ;)
Besides, I like the way the forums work here - if I didn't I'd go elsewhere :whistling:

First, or better secondly, the implementation of this proposal would lead to huge clogging. Plus leaving a rule-breaching topic which attracts controversy open for 24 hours is nearly as good as leaving it open forever. And talking about rules leads us to the second or better yet first point.

I quite agree with the meritocracy argument, but as I understand it, what makes a mod good is that he doesn't act on personal behalf so it doesn't matter if it's him or another good mod. Because, as far as I know, topics are closed only if they've broken some rule, they musn't be closed otherwise. Rules are established, they're objective not subjective, and if somebody doesn't accept them he will be better served elsewhere. It musn't be discussed whether a rule-breaching topic should be closed, otherwise there are no rules. Of course it can be discussed (by PMs better) whether a topic closing was appropriate, that is complying with the rules, as Kosta said, and if it wasn't the topic can be reopened. Just as a good judge is a slave to the laws a good mod is a slave to the rules and just like in a trial you may appeal to higher instances, but always arguing about the rules, not because you've got so may supporters.

EDIT: This belongs to Site Comments/Suggestions, doesn't it? AAAARRGH RULE BREACH!! :titan:
:bleh: :bleh: :bleh:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom Henrik @ Nov 21 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]267864[/snapback]</div>Hmm, I wonder who the dictator is, because Kosta doesn't seem to be the dictating type <_<

But how can it be fair to close a topic if it's a matter of something that people have different opinions about? Like how do you define flaming? One admin might have one opinion, another admin another opinion, one mod yet another opinion, and the commoners yet another opinion.

Yesterday I made a post that I didn't see as flaming. Yet an admin thought so. I've asked people, and many of them share my opinion. Who is able to decide what's going on inside of somebody's mind? It might look like flaming, but perhaps if you read closer and stop being narrow-minded and try not to decide in advance, you might notice that it's actually just constructive critisism. Or whatever.


I'm for Romano's idea.

I dont know what to say. I would like to agree with Romano, but im not sure if it's right. :unsure:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheChosen @ Nov 21 2006, 10:42 AM) [snapback]267933[/snapback]</div>You're not sure? :huh: I'd think that either one agrees or disagrees...
Perhaps you're not sure if it'll get you in troubles? :ph34r:
Juuuust wondering :)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 10:47 AM) [snapback]267935[/snapback]</div>I think that's what im afraid of.

But hell, If I get into the trouble, then I am. At least I get some action in my life.

I agree with Romano.

- it sucks not being able to tell your opinions because you're afraid of what others'll think, right? -
I shock people every day at work, because of my interest in hockey, tattoes and piercings, and I couldn't be happier :) Who gives what others think.

What's so shocking about being interested in hockey?:huh:

It doesn't matter if the dictator is the benevolent type or ha an obsession with his authority. It is still dictatorship, no matter how you look at this.

And by the way... am I speaking to Rainwife or Sebatianos this time?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A. J. Raffles @ Nov 21 2006, 11:51 AM) [snapback]267954[/snapback]</div>Hockey's not a girls sport ;) There are around 30 girls who play hockey in iceland, versus hundreds of boys. It's a lesbo sport :P

Am I talking to the_fifth_horseman or his girlfriend?

I'm Freyja, btw. Not my boyfriend. In case you're interested :)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]267966[/snapback]</div>Post reported to administrator !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Romano @ Nov 21 2006, 12:55 PM) [snapback]267975[/snapback]</div>Post reported to administrator !
[/b][/quote]

For flaming?
I agree. We need to keep this board clean of uneeded accusations and unfairness.


LONG LIVE DICTATORSHIP!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]267978[/snapback]</div>Post reported to administrator !
[/b][/quote]

For flaming?
I agree. We need to keep this board clean of uneeded accusations and unfairness.


LONG LIVE DICTATORSHIP!
[/b][/quote]

And for sexism :max:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]267978[/snapback]</div>*Sings soviet anthem with abandonian text* :D

That, precisely, is why the forum is a dictatorship. Your post did contain flame, and your multitude of reports filed to the mods of this forum is worth a warn increase just for wasting their time.
Or do you want me to quote their content, so that everyone can see what is your opinion of mods here? Given that a report is sent to every mod of the given forum, you have spammed and attacked all of them, not just Danny.

So finally you're showing your true side. Congrats, Puffin. *clap* *clap*

I have _never_ allowed _anyone_ to access my accounts on _any_ forum. Implying I might have done that is at the very least insulting.

On other hand, Sebatianos has used Rainwife's account several times, plus Rainwife has openly announced she was leaving the forum. Therefore, the probability that it is Sebastianos circumventing his restrictions again is much higher than this actually being Rainwife returning to the forum.

*remove this*

The thing is as far as I can see, that if it's a problem between two people they should try to solve it between themselves, there's E-mail, instant messaging and whatever, before creating "incidental" topics.
Although such topics are interesting to read. *grabs popcorn*

I sent that mod several times because I wanted something done about it.

I'm showing my true side? The hell do you think you know about me? And stop calling me Puffin, Ponyman. It's not my name.

Okay, good for you :) I haven't, either. Are you going to report me for asking this?

It's also possible that he decided not to do those mistakes again. And that he and rainwife were talking about this and she decided to return to participate in this discussion. And you accusing him of using her account without having proofs could be looked at as flaming and insulting, right? Sorry, I'm trying to figure out what people here consider flaming. I must be awfully wrong. It's just that most other forums I've ever been to are fairer than this one :)


ADDED:
Oh, and if you show those reports you'll be warned :) That is... If you're not under some sorta special treatment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ Nov 21 2006, 02:37 PM) [snapback]267989[/snapback]</div>Indeed. Just sit back, relax and read the bickering... :)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gregor @ Nov 21 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]267993[/snapback]</div>Indeed. Just sit back, relax and read the bickering... :)
[/b][/quote]

Unless you've seen around 12 internet dramas already... <_<

On topic (although it's probably fairly pointless, at this stage):

Disclaimer: Having modded a couple of "difficult" boards myself, I tend to side with admins and mods on these issues.

Polling people for thread locking, bannings, assorted administravia doesn't work. Saw one board try it, it's closed. Saw another board try be "democratic" by allowing moderator elections: closed. If people are determined to complain about a board incessantly, they usually do, regardless of what they're given.
Whilst boards that operate somehwhere between dictatorship and representative oligarchy (like this one) just deal with these people and keep going.
That said, locking a thread doesn't need to be the be all and end all of it's existence. You can have the mod/admin whatever who's online lock a questionable thread, and then discuss it (and possibly re-open it) with the other staff members, so all points of view within the board administration are accounted for.

Nine reports. Su-ure. PM function was too difficult to use to ask why no action was taken or something?

You say you wanted something done about it. That is why one of your reports said "You evil son of a bitch" as the reason for report, correct? There were also two others - one where you told the mods that they suck and should die, and second where you told them to *meep* themselves.

Not a particularly good idea for grabbing a mods' attention, if that really was your intention. The staff are not particularly interested that your name is George, even if you send it to them through a report form.

Did you report me for asking "Rainwife" about this? Do unto others like you would have them do unto yourself. :butcher:

The likeliness of that being the case is marginal.
Accusing or asking to which one I am talking to? In the past Sebatianos admitted to using Rainwife's account to post on the forums multiple times after being confined to Dissidents forum. Rainwife said she was leaving for good. No posts were made from her account until now, and that particular post is trolling on the admins. This isn't matching to Rainwife's posting habits and patterns, but completely to those of Seb.
Therefore I wanted to know who was I actually replying to.

Look at the top of this post. I already did that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 12:38 PM) [snapback]267971[/snapback]</div>Hockey's not a girls sport ;) There are around 30 girls who play hockey in iceland, versus hundreds of boys. It's a lesbo sport :P
[/b][/quote]
Really? I always thought it was quite a girly sport. Well, a handy excuse for girls to beat up each other during PE, anyway.:)

I'm an admin at my countrie's biggest forum. There have been attempts to find out how many regulars there are, but as far as I know nothing came out of that.
Since I joined that forum some years ago, I've noticed less than 10 threads that I can remember being locked. We're talking about a forum with over 100.000 users. When something comes up, replies are cencored (with a PM sent to the poster, explaining why). Admins arent' shy in sending private messages and warning people, and in the admin forum there are discussions about everything that's not going as it should. If people break the rules repetedly, they get banned.
Users discuss matters. If people are unhappy with an admin, its discussed both between normal users and admins. And it's solved.

Somebody tell me why there have to be more closed threads on this forum than on that?

You say you saw less then ten threads bein locked. Very well, how many were deleted?

These are two different forums, governed by two different crews who operate in their own methods which do not have to be identical.

If you cannot accept that, remember that being a member of Abandonia's community is not obligatory. You don't have to stay here, if you do not want to.

But if you'd use methods similar to that you wouldn't have to close threads.
Or perhaps you enjoy it?

Jesus fancy bycicle Christ...

What do you call this thread, Moli?

I call it admins and mods discussing forum problems with posters, in an open manner. It isn't locked.

Tom Henrik made it quite clear why he locked your first one, (it being over the top in it's attack on Danny) and that why he locked it wasn't up for discussion. But here we are, discussing forum problems in an unlocked thread. All because it was phrased more politely from the outset by Romano.

Gee, what a bunch of Facists they are for letting us do that.

Methods similar to what exactly, Puffin? I told you: different forums, different methods. Not that you haven't figured out already that two different forums also mean two different communities that react differently to the same stimuli.

Contrary to your belief, nobody here enjoys having to lock threads, delete or censor posts or give out warn increases. But there are situations in which this has to be done, so stop complaining.

Why can't it be talked out like seems to work well on other forums?? :blink: I told you, It CAN work. It just takes some work.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 03:27 PM) [snapback]268000[/snapback]</div>That is not true! Only you are not allow to see this posts :ph34r:

I completely missed those two posts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 02:27 PM) [snapback]268000[/snapback]</div>The report function is the function to use for reports, right? Then I can report it via the report function if I wish.

The post I was reporting had similar language to what I used in those reports. I thought maybe that if they thought it was okay to have other people called that without anything being done about it, they wouldn't mind if I'd use the same language on them.

Fair.

The likeliness of that being the case is marginal.

Well, people tend to return after they leave for good. When I'm not at work and actually have time I can dig up several farewell topics of people who have return, including my own.

Now you have done the same thing danny did. Showing other people's report to people who have nothing to do with it. If nothing will be done about it, it's just another prove of how corrupt this place is. Thank you for showing us that even clearer :)



@AJ:
Girls around here don't beat up another girls. At least not the girls I hang out with. I don't know what sort of fellowship you're in, though :) But it's probably not a good one, if you fight all the time.
We try to stay civilisized around here :)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]268017[/snapback]</div>Hmm, just to avoid confusion: I don't hang out in fellowships and I haven't played hockey since I was forced to do so sometime in 9th grade. I didn't particularly enjoy the sport, but most of the other girls loved clobbering each other with their hockey sticks. Schoolgirls can be a lot more vicious than you seem to give them credit for... That might be different in Iceland, though.:P
Seriously, though, in the UK at least, hockey is quite common as a girls' sport at schools.

Hockey is regarded as a girls' sport here, too - and I hardly think accusing someone of being uncivilised for expressing surprise at a cultural difference is justified, particularly given its complete irrelevance to this (pointless) discussion.

T5H is entirely correct - if you have a problem with a lack of response to a report, then spamming further reports and swearing at moderators is not the way to air that grievance; email or PMs to mods or admins make much more sense.

In all fairness, you and Romano are the ones who repeatedly open public discussions of things which could easily have been dealt with privately with less fuss and without conotributing to this board's atmosphere of argumentativeness and whining.

There's one team for girls in the capital city, and there are about 15 of us. Schools here don't have ice ranks. And the clobbering of sticks is due to the lesbian factor in the hockey ;)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BeefontheBone @ Nov 21 2006, 03:47 PM) [snapback]268022[/snapback]</div>This isn't something that should be swept under the rug, Beef. This is about the forum, and users make forum. Without us, there wouldn't be need for mods or admins.
It makes me wonder if some people have something to hide or if they're ashamed or something, when I'm repetedly asked to deal with this privately....

And I already explained the swearing in teh reports, I was using the same language as seemed to be okay in the post I was reporting. Please read before you post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moli @ Nov 21 2006, 03:52 PM) [snapback]268023[/snapback]</div>Well, in that case there IS quite a cultural difference, then. As far as I know practically every British school has a girls' hockey team. Except for the all-boys schools, obviously...
By the way, I was talking of field hockey, not ice hockey, so maybe we're not really talking about the same thing. Anyway, I'd say that many types of sports just generally provide a convenient outlet for aggression, whether it's boys playing football or girls playing hockey. But you actually seem quite fond of your image of hockey as a sport for big butch women, so fair enough.;)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 02:34 PM) [snapback]267986[/snapback]</div>First of all it's none of your bussiness and I guess you've never been really close to anyone. We started sharing our bank accounts years ago and some people even though that the two of us being so close is reason enough for me not to get VIP, because I was able to use Seb's account - that was the only explenation I was able to read why I wasn't made a VIP.
And you're typing to Mojca. Yes, I did say I will leave Abandonia and have been gone for quite some time, but again, not that it's any of your bussiness I have asked Kosta to give me acces to the dissident forum and I have been posting. Not much, but I have.
And you are just trying to acuse Seb of something or what? In case you haven't read it closely enough the last time remeber this:
If he posts as me, he says it's him. Otherwise you wouldn't have even known about it. Why waste my time. You don't want to listen or understand. You just want to flame.

What you are missing is that the supposed "reports" of yours have been quoted in order for other users to be able to compare them with what you have claimed just a few posts before, Puffin. Or do you prefer to be called George? Afterall, that's what you asked the mods to do in one of these messages.

When you want to know why no action has been taken, you should have used PM function to contact one of the 3xBlah moderators or a forum admin.
What you did was waste the mods' time and insult them. Furthermore, upon seeing the content and number of your supposed reports it becomes clear that this was your actual intention.

As I said before: you don't like this forum - feel free to leave.


Quite the contrary. I saw your initial post in this thread as a trolling attempt towards the admins, and that was not something you attempted before.
I am also aware that Seb has only admitted that he has been using your account to post on the forums after doing that several times.

While I once had quite a lot of respect for him both as a person and moderator, Sebatianos has proven himself to be very efficient at destroying his own reputation. Now all I have for him is disgust, and for that he can thank none else but himself. Feel free to tell him that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]268037[/snapback]</div>Now that's a flame!!!

I have report this post. This is a second post writen by the_fifth_horseman i reported. There is no feedback till now :blink:

What it really is is my opinion on who he was and who he has now become. You're free to interpret that any way you want.
But no, I'm not trying to flame him. I never hated Seb, and I doubt I'm suddenly going to. I simply lost all respect for his person after he started that little hate campaign of his.

And how is this any different from what Moli (Puffin) said about Danny? Yet that was flaming <_<

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Romano @ Nov 21 2006, 05:43 PM) [snapback]268040[/snapback]</div>And there will be none. You started a discussion where knifes are being thrown back and forth, why the outrage of what it has turned to? You wanted open discussion and no locking, democracy and freedom of speech. There you have it....

You might want to note that I did not use any insults towards him.

What George did was:
If Sebatianos wants to discuss my opinion of his person (as he just asked me to in a PM), I will gladly talk with him on the subject.
If he considers my previous words inflammatory and requests me to withdraw what I said, I see no reason not to do that.

I just know what I said before - I will not let anyone try to speak bad about my husband. He PMed you - man, he types fast. I guess he want's to talk to you then.

And about the posts... tohe insults to Danny (yes some of them you mentioned were) were nto in the open letter. The part you copied from the open leter were less flaming then what you said about Seb.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rainwife @ Nov 21 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]268049[/snapback]</div>Minus the name-calling, though...

Ponyman, are those private messages you're quoting there? Correct me if I'm wrong.


Kosta, You've warned me for sharing somethign that was said "under four eyes". Why is Ponyman any different? I expect an answer, if I dont' get one, there's one thing that's obvious. And I'm not going to say it because apparantly people can't say the truth around here.

:yawn:

Such drama, so tiring.

I wonder what the big deal is here... this is a game site, not freaking world domination. What is there to be political about? Is there nothing more worthwhile to do with your time? Give it a rest.

Moli, reports are not private messages, they go to a large group of moderators and will be read by all of them. The fact they use the same mechanism as the PMs is irrelevant, I see no problem with the posting of mod reports in the open forum.

I posted the content of all nine of your reports in the Mod forum, I got them and read them as they came in. I did not think The Punisher's post was inappropriate enough to warrant mod action in its context. On reflection, I should have informed you of this, since you reported it, I did not and I apologise, I'll do so in future.

In any case, one report of a post, with a description of what you find offensive about the post, is always sufficient. Aside from that, the content of your later posts were rude and inappropriate; you know what you wrote, don't feign ignorance if you don't want me to post them all here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(taikara @ Nov 21 2006, 06:36 PM) [snapback]268058[/snapback]</div>Of course! Everytime we have something going on, someone reminds that this is a game site!

But this is forum. We dont just talk about games, we talk about our lives, our passions, our dreams and hopes........

Just look at this!! This type of arguing and conspirating make's people want to leave!! You goddam shmucks!!

Kosta, there is a problem. I dont know what it is but please find it out and fix it!

Cheez.. <_<

It's like Big Brother, only on forums :D

*sigh*

Our dear Dissident brothers and sisters really are an angry little bunch of people.

I have never had a problem with this forum - until now.
But to be clear, the problem has nothing to do with the admins and moderators, rather, I am dissapointed that this topic (and the "open letter" topic that was locked yesterday [my time]) seems to be nothing more than muck-raking by certain people.
The tone of these two topics are so out of character with what I usually experience around here.
There is absolutely nothing to gain by being inflammatory and rude - on a forum or in real life.

On any forum that I have ever been a member of, I have found that the forum will thrive and flourish regardless of what the individual rules are so long as the users are respectful and decent in their dealings with one another - whether those users are general members or admins.

No-one else around here seemed to have the issues with the mods/admins that you are describing, and if they did/do then they were obviously dealing with it the right way - because there were no ugly topics opened, until your "Open Letter."

This all just stinks of people trying to make trouble, ugh.

We get it - you don't like the way things are being done, you're already Dissidents. But, just like The Fifth Horseman has already said - If you really don't like it that much, just leave.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheChosen @ Nov 22 2006, 07:47 AM) [snapback]268131[/snapback]</div>Well he founded the breakaway Dissidents' forum for people who are unhappy with how this forum is run --so that this very thing wouldn't happen and yet it's happening again--, I can't think of more benevolent a solution; it's too benevolent in my opinion, I wouldn't have done it. If you're asking for an alternative solution, it would be banning in other forums and I can't think of another one except submitting to the will of a minority against the owner's criterion, and then we'd have the same problem the other way around.

Some people argue that if they say why they're insulting then they're not insulting. I don't agree, but if somebody thinks that the anti-flaming rules are too tough here --they're supposed to be objective, not to depend on the mod-- he may consider that any grudge can be discussed without resorting to insults. Like in "I didn't like what you did at all" instead of "You're a complete idiot because what you did was moronic".

The first two were posted by Puffin in a different thread, nonethless in public (until they were removed and put where only mods and admins can see them).
The other two were part of that "open letter" post.

I take it she doesn't even remember what she posted in the open. And yes, all reports are sent to a large group of mods.

The difference here is: what I quoted was evidence of inappropriate usage of the Report function by Puffin when he she claimed otherwise.

And with that I think I'll end my participation in this thread, as those battles with Puffin have cost me several hours of time I could spend on verifying old threads in the Requests forum.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheChosen @ Nov 22 2006, 06:47 AM) [snapback]268131[/snapback]</div>Being rude, and insulting people, and deliberately trying to cause trouble is hardly discussing your dreams and hopes. <_<

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frodo @ Nov 22 2006, 02:07 PM) [snapback]268211[/snapback]</div>Being rude, and insulting people, and deliberately trying to cause trouble is hardly discussing your dreams and hopes. <_<
[/b][/quote]
Well, what if my dreams and hopes happen to be being rude, insulting people and causing trouble?:P

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A. J. Raffles @ Nov 22 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]268214[/snapback]</div>Then I would say...

Quote from Bruce Banner


:bleh:

Nah.
That's the saying of one Phobos, moderator at Librarium Online... the guy's scary, I tell you!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheChosen @ Nov 22 2006, 06:47 AM) [snapback]268131[/snapback]</div>Of course! Everytime we have something going on, someone reminds that this is a game site!

But this is forum. We dont just talk about games, we talk about our lives, our passions, our dreams and hopes........

Just look at this!! This type of arguing and conspirating make's people want to leave!! You goddam shmucks!!

Kosta, there is a problem. I dont know what it is but please find it out and fix it!

Cheez.. <_<
[/b][/quote]

I was merely illustrating the contrast between the community here, and something such as the UN. What is the big deal that a the angst of a few individuals has to turn into a question of board-wide "politics"? Anyone who sees this site as a political platform, or believes that organized rebellions against the administration are necessary obviously has too much time on their hands.

There are rules, and the members choose to follow the rules or not, and if not, they risk the consequences of being punished in some way by the admins. I don't think that's such a big problem... it's not like an admin here is going to bomb your city or toss you underneath a prison for the next 50 years for misbehaving on the forum. The worst that's going to happen is that someone will get banned. Boo-hoo, they have to find another community to break the rules in. It's just not that big a deal. If it is that big a deal, then perhaps someone needs to get some perspective. Suck it up, take your medicine, and try harder. It really isn't that difficult to be courteous, nice, and avoid punishment by admins.

Edit: pressed the quote button on the wrong post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lulu_Jane @ Nov 22 2006, 09:35 AM) [snapback]268152[/snapback]</div>And you will jump in to help preparing and uploading games :bleh:
Main part of Abandonia is still HERE !

What _I_ see here is a lot of people pointing fingers at other people and shouting.

But this is just _my_ opinion.

I try to translate a German saying here:
"First sweep in front of your own doorway"

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Edited for clarity

...Is that a quote?

Yes it is.

Where did you get it from?

Ben Franklin, if memory serves.

That's widely believed but the Wikipedia says that it's likely a misattribution and provides a couple of twists:

I didn't get it from Wikipedia, as Wikipedia can be edited. I don't trust it.

Surely, I'm not saying it's correct. Anyway it's argued upon language style, the case is whether Franklin actually wrote it or a contemporary person heard it from him and registered it or something.

My favourite variant is the last one, the one with the "must".

Sweet, sweet off topic...