I know it's frustrating when you need to figure out DOSBox parameters in order to run the game, sometimes for people who are not familiar with old hardware get easily stuck with configuration. A friend of mine who doesn't know a bit about all that vintage stuff has asked me to make him a game to run at system without all that hassle with DOSBox configuration and so on. So I've put everything together, configured, tested and finally compiled into nice-looking installer based on small-yet-powerful NSIS (see the screenshots below). Then I realized that perhaps this is what people really want, easy pre-configured build without all those troubles and frustration when it comes to running old games on modern system. Given that there's a discussion about Abandonia & BitTorrent I thought it would be cool make some sort of user-friendly releases that way and then use BitTorrent to download those. I'm sure DOSBox experts and those with patience (like me) will eventually make almost any game run smooth but what about the rest? I'm sure they would find something like this very nice and friendly:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...rm/albion1.png

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...rm/albion2.pnghttp://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...rm/albion3.png

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...rm/albion4.png

In the end he just had to click "next", "next", "next" and then simply run shortcut in program files and that's it. Everything else was pre-configured.

Perhaps all this isn't worth it, perhaps it's quite complicated given that the person who have to make those must know NSIS script and so on. But perhaps there is a chance making games like that, something I believe Abandonia could use later...

CD images can be stored inside the installer (which can be un7zipped manually, useful for linux folks) so the purists can get original CD image for their collection. There are many other possibilities and so on... but before going anywhere further... Comments, thoughts, ideas?

Treewyrm, this is absolutely brilliant! The only thing I would see wrong with it is that people may only like having games not installed on their system, meaning that running an install for each game could be a bother. But this idea of yours would save the average n00b alot of pondering time.

And, BTW, when I was looking at the screenshots I thought Albion was re-vamped or something.. very pro indeed!!!

Sounds just about perfect.

Only problem I see is that some of us prefer using the games in DosBox and messing with the settings on their own, and from what I get each game installed this way would also include a separate copy of DosBox, correct?

That would also add nearly a megabyte to each game, in some cases being several times more then the size of game itself.

In my private opinion it would be wiser to simply include a pre-defined config file for the game and a shortcut that launches a pre-installed copy of DosBox using that config file.

Oh, and a side note... what is NSIS? Some sort of programming language, I presume?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 21 2006, 12:56 PM) [snapback]267955[/snapback]</div>yeah some sort of .bat file that would include all the parameters required to run the game in DosBox.


still the install version is safer for newbies. but then again it also really adds to the size of the game. imagine those 50kB games inlcuding such installer with DoxBox :D

Well, I've been thinking about it and here are possible ways I see:

1) Each game includes bundled pre-configured DOSBox. Good thing for newbies, bad thing for everyone else since every game will have it's own DOSBox and that's generally a bad idea I think.

2) Each game doesn't include DOSBox itself but rather configuration file suited to run the game. User will have to install DOSBox manually though. This way games will not need to contain DOSBox in each installation, good for size, however it will require a little work afterwards, so I don't think it's much better.

3) Again, each game doesn't include DOSBox but will verify if it exists, a user should point installer to DOSBox location and the installer will do the rest and create valid shortcuts and etc. Almost nothing to do for user but still have to download DOSBox manually.

4) Same as above but installer will also be able to download DOSBox itself if there isn't any on user system (or simply if user wants to). Good thing is that it's sort of update system that will things easier for users. A rather complex task but I know NSIS is capable of this and even much more.

NSIS stands for NullSoft Installation System, installer behind WinAMP and many other software. It's very common today for internet distribution because it have smallest overhead (approx. 30kbytes, depends on many factors though), high compression ratio (lzma, good for old games too) and many features yet to be seen in commercial installation software. I've been using it for some time and even had a chance to make use of it in commercial environment (I used to work in game development/publishing and I also did installers for some games). I think it's well suited for the job and would provide users with easy way of installing and running games.

Once generic installer script is made and tested it can be used later for any game, all you'll have to do is to change the name and perhaps add new sections (components) if you want to (or UI art like I did for Albion). Or anything game-specific. In any case people who will want to wrap their games with it will not need to know programming at all. We could even design it to look in the same style as Abandonia website, NSIS is a very flexible installer (also opensource and free for any use).

Why not .bat? Well... It's ugly, you still have to do things yourself and etc. The goal of the installer is provide easy and yet effective way of making game to run in DOSBox. Those who don't want to do anything with installers can unzip it with 7zip and install everything on their own as they like. This way nobody get hurts and both newbies and experts get the same.

It would be a great thing to do, and as for Horseman's "Only problem I see is that some of us prefer using the games in DosBox and messing with the settings on their own", I believe that those of us who like changing the DOSBox settings without any help could still do it, no? The games could be set to install themselves in c:\program files\abandonware, for example, and then the only thing which would need to be changed is the line mount C.... :)

Once again I would like to point out that everyone is free to modify configuration and do whatever they like with installer, I've already mentioned twice above that you can manually un7zip it. Also, please, read the message I've posted above, it explains different ways installer may work. The idea behind all this is to make a single distribution format suitable both for newbies and experts and I believe it is something NSIS can do. Once we figure out: a) if we need such installer; b) how installer will work; I can start coding generic installer script which later can be used to automaticly pack any game with pre-configured DOSBox configuration file and etc. Some people like those DOSBox GUI like D-Fend and etc, perhaps I could also make installer to generate D-Fend profile and even automaticly import it (I yet have to see how it works, but my guess that it's possible as well).

To summarize: small overhead + high compression ratio (LZMA compression) + intuitive installation process + included configuration file + manual unpackage (can also be done on non-windows system, lzma compression is free and there are many both gui and cli tools for other systems avaliable) + nice and clean ui (and distinguishable look).

Brilliant! Just brilliant!

I like the mentioned number 4 type of instalation. because i don't actually need dosbox (i have win 98). i must say i am very much in for this one. i downloaded from CGA and they have (or at least used to have) installer. Which is good, cause it's easy and it nicelly puts all shortcuts and games into folder, so everything stays nicelly organised.

I don't think too much art is necessary (each game it's own art), but would be cool if it had some common abandonia like look.

i am all for it.

Very, very good idea. If there is a small note next to the download ("Download and execute or extract the file.") really everybody should know, what to do.

What about adding an option "D-Fend Configuration"? I think many are using this frontend for DosBox, so if it is possible to add this feature, it would be really comfortable. Position of the .exe's and mounting information will be written to the .conf and .prof and then copied to the "Confs"-Folder. Infomation about the game could be added (if its not already there) to the Profile/Publisher/Genres/Developers.DAT. I think it will not be to big, to have all genres in all languages (Aktion, Action, Àkzion) in the installer, chosen by a check for standard os-language. And... if the average image is not too big, there can be created a capture folder and be filled with 3 images from the game, so that D-Fend can display the fresh installed game with all features of the frontend. And of course, after install an option to start DosBox or D-Fend. :)

I just saw, that D-Fend is not in the programs section... :blink: I cant believe it. :w00t: :hairpull: ;)

D-Fend can create problems with some games. This option here is fairly straightforward.

Treewyrm, I think that idea (3 is sufficient, but (4 seems to be the best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Treewyrm @ Nov 21 2006, 12:37 PM) [snapback]267969[/snapback]</div>How much "work" does installing DOSBox actually involve, though?
You need to
- download the archive
- create four new folders
- unzip the archive to the correct location
- add two lines to the config-file
- save the changes
But that's it. The longest bit about that is the download, but the rest is a matter of seconds, really.

I'm currently looking to make it 4th way, however there are still some issues at hand. Firstly we must somehow figure out the latest DOSBox version before downloading anything, I bet 0.65 isn't going to be last one. Secondly we must know where to download from, DOSBox is hosted on sourceforge and they have multiple mirror servers to download from. I'll see what I can about it, NSIS have lots of tiny plug-ins just for anything, there is support for mirror downloads too but figuring out what filename is going to be a little tricky. Anyway I'm digging NSIS wiki and asking people on NSIS forum, they're good fellas and helped me a lot before, together we'll figure out how to do it.

A. J. Raffles, well yes, you know what to add into configuration file, right? But what about those who don't? Will they likely spend another hour reading DOSBox wiki and trying to figure out what to do? Likely not. Installer is expected to do almost everything automaticly with a few promts users should handle by themselves, otherwise it's no practical use.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 22 2006, 02:25 PM) [snapback]268195[/snapback]</div>Well, then the option is grayed out, with a note "Unpossible" or somethin. If the problems can be solved with a specific config, then this config can be modified by the installer. I will take a look at NSIS, maybe i can help to realize this. I really think it would be handy for people who dont want to bother with configurations, folders and files.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 22 2006, 02:25 PM) [snapback]268195[/snapback]</div>Sorry for my insufficient english. :( Did you want to say "The D-Fend option is easy to implement."? Or something completely other? I would appreciate a free english lesson. :)

It would take quite some time to create installers for all the games. Especially if a special config file has to be created for each and every game. Other than that I think it would make installing those games very, very easy indeed. I'd even use it and take the 17 different DosBox'es on my HD for granted, if all I wanted to do was give the game a quick try :P

Reup, don't worry, you don't need to create unique installer script for each game. I'll make generic script template which later can be used for any game so the packing process will be pretty much straightforward. If there'll be need for something special - I'll be there to modify script. Speaking basicly everyone who is capable of copying files in filesystem, editing dosbox.conf file, clicking on icon and selecting script file from dropdown menu will be able to pack game. But yea, dosbox.conf should be configured per-game, that's the whole point of all this idea is to make game run in DOSBox without all those configuration problems.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Treewyrm @ Nov 22 2006, 01:37 PM) [snapback]268200[/snapback]</div>Actually I'm anything but an expert. Everything I know about DOSBox I found out by reading help files.
There's no need even to go as far as the DOSBox wiki, though. DOSBox comes with a very helpful readme file which addresses all the most common questions (the first of which is how to mount drives). It's hard to miss that information, really, unless someone makes it a point never to read any file called 'readme'...:P
But yes, I see what you mean. A lot of people can't be bothered to look in the most obvious places.:rolleyes:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doc Angelo @ Nov 22 2006, 02:59 PM) [snapback]268208[/snapback]</div>D-Fend can create other problems then simple impossibility to run a game. Random crashes, for instance. In my own opinion, if the game is bundled with a pre-configured optimum config for DosBox, adding D-Fend to that would not be neccesary.
Especially not when appropriate shortcuts can be created by the installer, making the point of using D-Fend obsolete.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doc Angelo @ Nov 22 2006, 02:59 PM) [snapback]268208[/snapback]</div>Sorry for my insufficient english. :( Did you want to say "The D-Fend option is easy to implement."? Or something completely other? I would appreciate a free english lesson. :)
[/b][/quote]
Really don't know what I wanted to say with that sentence. :blink: I'm not in best physical and mental shape recently. <_<

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Nov 22 2006, 03:44 PM) [snapback]268221[/snapback]</div>Well, of course this option isnt really needed, its more an addition to the basic installation, for those who love D-Fend. For the one who is new to dos emulation, a shortcut just starting DosBox with the right config and the game is very easy and that is the goal. But if its possible, this D-Fend option just would be nice for the lazy ones (as i am). :)

I never heard of crashes, that D-Fend causes.

A. J. Raffles, not only that but streamlined look is something I bet would be useful. Also you could simply use "silent" mode to install bunch of games without even clicking on a button, how useful is that? I think it's good too.

the_fifth_horseman, yup, valid shortcuts are made too, it's the first thing I have done and it works quite well (especially with unique icon).

Another very useful thing I've found while poking around DOSBox command-line interface is multiple configuration file. As you know you can specify configuration file by adding -conf key. Cool feature is that you can add more -conf keys and upon loading DOSBox will merge them into one and process configuration. This way we can create mini-confs that contain only game-specific parameters and optimal settings, this mini-conf will be added to -conf key in shortcut. We can preserve user preferences such as viewmode (fullscreen or windowed, scaler settings and so on) while modifying only those that game specifically needs (cycles, cpu settings, soundcard settings, mount points and etc). In this light I think installer usefulness is quite obvious. With people here that can provide those game-specific .conf settings we can make this whole idea live.

Right now I'm coding generic installer script based on Albion installer with those features I've mentioned before. Most difficult part right now is to make it download latest DOSBox... :-) The rest aren't that difficult.

As for D-Fend profiles I'll have to dig it up too. If it's not too hard to implement I'll add that feature too.

Also I've asked Kosta to provide some graphic templates from website so I can recreate Abandonia style. Since graphics here composed of few colors they will also take less in installer. Besides I think it's cool and distinguishable (as opposed to those ugly warez-scene-like .NFOs and other stuff like that).

I just tested it: The second .conf dont override the values from the first .conf. If something wasnt defined in the first, it takes the definition from the second .conf. So the miniconf must be loaded before the one from the user.

Besides: The cycles which are best for a game depends heavily on the user CPU, right? How can we provide a setting for the cycles which will work on every computer?

//edit:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Treewyrm @ Nov 22 2006, 04:19 PM) [snapback]268226[/snapback]</div>I really like to help out. I can find out, if such a function is makeable and easy to use for the user. Till the end of the week i should be able to ... tell you if im to stupid for that or not. :D

Doc Angelo, what DOSBox version do you use?

In the end it initialized glide. So it does override settings. Also you can make multiple [autoexec] sections and it will merge contents from both of em. So i had both test and test2 commands executed in order set by -conf keys. Btw, I'm using 0.65 Daum Cafe build but I doubt this is unique to this build, I'll test this with original version.

Yes, they depend on CPU but not really that much. If your CPU can't handle amount of required emulated cycles by the game itself you aren't really going to run the game anyway (by "run" i actually meant "playable run" or something like that, sorry, english isn't my native). Mini-conf will only need to specify minimal amount of emulated cycles to run the game smooth enough to play. Once again: you can always modify mini-conf and set whatever you want there.

Im using the actual version 0.65. I testes it twice, and the second one only adds settings, never override. But thats not a problem for our tiny Babyconf. :)

what about VDMSound support?

And what about that? Despite all it's pros VDMSound is destined to extinct I have to say. It's quite sad but we all know about it. With Windows Vista coming up and more users jumping on 64-bit processors bandwagon (like me, I run both WinXP64 and source-based Linux distro with full x64 support) VDMSound will become pretty much obsolete because of it's inability to run within 64-bit environment and there is nothing we can do about it. Right now I'm more concerned about DOSBox since it doesn't heavily depend on host OS and their specific features, besides I enjoy it on my Linux box too :-). It may come that VDMSound profiles can be generated by installer but I'm not sure about that, I'll have to find out if it's possible.

This all sounds brilliant, I must say! :) I have just one question regarding manual unpacking... Lets say you wanted to unpack it on a linux or mac system, how would you do that if the file is a windows executable? Just wasn't clear on that part so I'd be grateful if you could give me a little more info :) Also, would there be any way to extract those file in DOS?

I've just compiled p7zip (opensource *NIX command-line 7zip port) on my Linux box and successfully un7zipped my installer. So pretty much both Windows and *NIX folks are safe with this distribution method: if they cannot run installer they can manually unpack it just like typical archive, every tool is free and opensource. Good for a long-time run.

As for DOS extracting I'm not sure. But even if there isn't way for pure DOS how're you supposed to get this file anyway? Don't tell me about browsing web in DOS... Sounds horrible... :-)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...sisextract.png

p.s. yea yea, I know... sitting under root in linux is baaaad, I don't usually do that, I'm just lazy sometimes :-)

haha, well, I checked google analytics just to be sure, and no, there wasn't a single user that used DOS to visit abandonia ;) However, there was one that used BeOS :blink: Anyways, I suppose it could be usable for all then, we'll just have to put a little FAQ that explains exactly how *NIX and MacOS users can extract the archives. Though I'm pretty sure most of the *NIX users will figure it out themselves :)

Perhaps a note telling them to use p7zip to manually unpack installer will do fine. If there'll be need - I'll write complete tutorial (granted someone will fix my horrible mistakes).

As far as I know it's quite possible to run NSIS installers on Linux using wine (as long as installer doesn't use specific plug-ins).

Btw, do we need multilingual installer? NSIS is capable of that too. Of course that comes at price of increased installer overhead. However we can choose specific languages and not just every NSIS supports (and that's quite a lot).

personally I'm not a big fan of including cvs builds of dosbox.
Afterall those do change regularly and there is no way of knowing if a game will continue to work in it.

The incrememtal configuration support will be part of the next version of DOSBox.
If you rely on that feature it might be an idea to wait for it.

Why wait for it if it's already there? Making installers will take some time, I suppose we'll get things working stable already by the time that feature will be implemented into DOSBox stable version. Why should we specifically wait if we already know it's there. Besides, I'm not going to include DOSBox into installer, this has already been discussed and currently I'm working on installer integration with existing DOSBox.

Couldn't you include into installer, something like download/check the latest version of DosBox on their servers?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ Nov 23 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]268371[/snapback]</div>This has been discussed as well, read the whole thread :bleh: But yes, it is being worked on ;)

Oh I thought it was mentioned that it'll check if there is any DosBox version one the PC, not the latest version.

Right now it'll prompt you to locate DOSBox executable (if you choose DOSBox configuration in components page, so this whole DOSBox thingy is not obligatory), once found it'll remember last used path in registry so that next time you install another game packed with the same installer you'll only have to confirm last used location, or you can choose another DOSBox executable if you have multiple DOSBox installations on your system. Shortcuts will be created according to specified location. There are couple of bugs atm but I'm fixing them. Once this part is done I can see to implement version check and download functionality.

It also remembers last used parent install path (D:\Games\MyTitle, default is: C:\Program Files\Abandonia\MyTitle) and next time you'll install another game you'll have this path already selected (D:\Games\MyTitle2) in install path prompt. I think it'll be useful too for batch installing (silent mode is also supported).

I think official DOSBox Windows build installer also writes install path into registry (for uninstaller) and I would also like to mention it is based on NSIS too! I'll make so that it will be choosen by default when you run installer first time. Saves time heh...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...sisdosbox1.png

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...sisdosbox2.png

you could add somewhere in descryption why DOSbox is needed. something like:

"DOSBox is a programme that helps you run old DOS games in WIN XP."

Indeed! "W00t is DOSBox and does it run Whee ExPee"... I'll add that too hehe...

Phew... scripting the installer is not as easy as i thougt. :huh:

Treewyrm, could you email me your current version of the installer.nsi? Then i could see, where to insert D-Fend and what functions you already use. I should add the D-Fend section as include, i think.

You have PM. :)

Thought I should say a bit on a current status of development.

So far things are going smooth. I've finished integration with DOSBox. It works and works well, a few problems are left but mostly it's done. Now I'm working both on UI and version check/download functionality. Also cleaning up the mess in the code, making it readable and easier to modify. If anyone wants to test it feel free to PM me, I'll send installer + blackthorne (cd-rom signed edition, I use it as a test game, besides it's small and I don't need to waste time waiting to recompile installer script).

I have a question about the screenshots, that can be displayed within D-Fend profiles. Right now, there is an option to download the screenshots from abandonia.com via http-requests. That will be up to 10 pics per game. So we have 30 requests for .gif, .jpg and .png. Is this ok for the server? Or is it better, to have the pics packed in the installer? Size of a screenshot package will be 50 - 150kB.

Package them. Then, if something ever happens to Abandonia (God forbid), you can still see them. 150K is nothing these days...

Wow... This look brilliant... Too bad it looks like the post is almost a year old and seem to have died since then...

How did I even miss this thread?