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The Fifth Horseman 02-12-2007 09:25 AM

Run the game using the patched executable.

lassedk78 07-02-2008 01:59 PM

ooooh Maan
 
And the summer came and went away igain... I played till my fingers bled :)

What a golden game this was (is)

humorguy 20-02-2008 11:12 PM

I prefer this in DOSBox. I think you get better AI for some reason, and you can obviously control the speed easier and the music and sound effects seem to sound better!

To give one example. I played the Windows version for a while, and in the battles, the AI always had one 'Please wait' screen, in DOS (at 10000 cycles) I will get 'please wait' then 'movement' then a shot at one of my men, then another 'wait' then maybe another shot from another alien... In other words, in Windows all aliens have there move and shots, in DOS, each alien get his AI move/shot - it just seems more dynamic! So if you are playing the Windows version, I recommend you try the DOS version in DOSBox with soundblaster 1, general midi, opengl and around 10000 cycles

Oh yea, and I have all the UFO games in their boxes with manuals AND the strategy guides and they are my prized possessions of EVERYTHING I own! That's how special these games are to me and how great they are! :)

Japo 21-02-2008 12:58 AM

I believe the DOS version has less bugs, it's what I'm playing. But I don't think the aliens move differently in the Windows version, only that DOSBox's cpu will always be slower than your real one specially at 10k cycles.

One of the worst failures of this game is that you can't shoot from cover. Figuring lines of fire out is like in Jagged Alliance, just draw the straightest imaginary line and if there's something in one of its squares then you can't shoot or be shot from there. In JA however the cover adjacent to you counts for blocking shots against you but not for blocking your own shots. That's a great feature, in UFO you can't shoot from cover and the safest practice is shooting from beyond the alien's spotting range, that means shooting with a different soldier than the one who spotted the alien and it doesn't really make sense. :/

By the way I've done math about selling manufactured items, not counting workshop space as an economic factor since it really isn't. Motion scanners are by far the most profitable item I'm able to manufacture so far (just started), likely there won't be many better items if any, at least not without using elerium up. Motion scanners make $18.0 per hour and engineer, medi-kits $9.3, laser rifles $7.5, and laser pistols $5.3. I haven't even researched heavy laser since they're worthless to use compared to rifles.

Incappucciato d'Ombra 21-02-2008 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japofran (Post 319641)
I believe the DOS version has less bugs, it's what I'm playing. But I don't think the aliens move differently in the Windows version, only that DOSBox's cpu will always be slower than your real one specially at 10k cycles.

I totally agree, AI is exactly the same in each version of the game. First time i'd played UFO, i'd played it on the Amiga and AI is the same (but Amiga version is "bugs free" damned Windows!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japofran (Post 319641)
One of the worst failures of this game is that you can't shoot from cover. Figuring lines of fire out is like in Jagged Alliance, just draw the straightest imaginary line and if there's something in one of its squares then you can't shoot or be shot from there. In JA however the cover adjacent to you counts for blocking shots against you but not for blocking your own shots. That's a great feature, in UFO you can't shoot from cover and the safest practice is shooting from beyond the alien's spotting range, that means shooting with a different soldier than the one who spotted the alien and it doesn't really make sense. :/

Well, while i agree that in JA (and even more in JA 2) this aspect had been developed better than in UFO :

1) even in JA / JA 2 you can use, and sometimes it's advisable to use, the UFO tactic of "spotter & sniper" (now i'm playing JA and Ivan had just killed an enemy, spotted by Grunty, without being able to see the enemy and 3-4 space "out of range" :D).

2) More important, i agree that this is a limitation of UFO but there is nothing strange in this tactic. With the proper equipment it's possible to see an enemy and send information to a buddy and then the buddy can shot at the enemy. Yes, ok, this equipment can't be materially see in game but we are talking of a high tech war so even if we can see... we can think that this equipment exist.:)

Japo 21-02-2008 11:10 AM

Yes I know that radio alone could make a bit of sense out of it. Besides that someone is too far to spot an enemy in the first place doesn't necessarily mean that he won't be able to see if he's indicated where to look. Still, the alien being shot should be able to spot where it's been shot from as well from farther away... Anyway it's a shame that this feature of shooting from cover isn't present in UFO, it's very cool in JA; in UFO if a soldier tries to shoot from cover he just shoots every time right into the cover that's just next to him.

The Fifth Horseman 21-02-2008 03:20 PM

Quote:

I haven't even researched heavy laser since they're worthless to use compared to rifles.
Laser Cannons are the most profitable item to produce for sale.

humorguy 21-02-2008 03:36 PM

Well, I see what I see and have put a lot of hours over the years into this game, and I am going to stick with my opinion that the game does play differently in DOS. Whether the AI takes advantage of the processor or whatever, I am convinced the AI is better in DOS, with the multiple pauses for the AI in ground battles a lot richer.

Eagle of Fire 21-02-2008 03:41 PM

Quote:

in UFO if a soldier tries to shoot from cover he just shoots every time right into the cover that's just next to him.
That is not completely true. It really depends on which kind of cover you're hiding behind. I particularly remember fences of any kind gave fair shot protection while allowing you to shoot thru it if you were at point blank range. UFO is a very old game anyways, such principles as shooting from behind cover was never even thought of in those days.

Quote:

I haven't even researched heavy laser since they're worthless to use compared to rifles.
Well, I myself never research the laser weapons until way later in the game simply because I consider them useless coma. However, the heavy version of any weapon owns in term of firepower. You certainly would not want to equip a full squad with it, but you sure need the firepower once in a while.

Using laser VS plasma weapons always been a great source of argument for Xcom fans. Laser weapons are easy to use, available sooner and usually all have auto shot which is a feature a lot of people swear from. Plasma weapon however pack a bigger punch and usually have a higher accuracy, especially with aimed shots. What I do myself at the end of the game is to give all my crackshots plasma weapons (they almost never miss), and give my new recruits laser weapon and hope the auto shot will do it's job.

Anyways, what I always personally do is aim to research medkit then personal armor first of all, then look to get better weapons. No use to have uber weapons if you have nobody to fire them. :)

Japo 21-02-2008 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fifth Horseman (Post 319689)
Laser Cannons are the most profitable item to produce for sale.

You are right, thanks for the heads up. I have higher research priorities right now since I don't plan to use heavy laser nor laser cannon, but the laser cannon's return is really worth the little research effort: $61.9 per hour and engineer! Some more I've calculated today: alien alloys ¢27.8 (yes *cents*), personal armour makes you *lose* $2.9 per hour and engineer if you produce it for sale, and heavy laser earns you $6.7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire (Post 319696)
That is not completely true. It really depends on which kind of cover you're hiding behind. I particularly remember fences of any kind gave fair shot protection while allowing you to shoot thru it if you were at point blank range. UFO is a very old game anyways, such principles as shooting from behind cover was never even thought of in those days.

I wasn't of course counting fences, at least for shooting. And I doubt that they count for cover when being shot. Sure they can be hit instead of the soldier but only if the alien misses, and I don't have reasons to think they make it more easy to fail.

Quote:

Well, I myself never research the laser weapons until way later in the game simply because I consider them useless coma. However, the heavy version of any weapon owns in term of firepower. You certainly would not want to equip a full squad with it, but you sure need the firepower once in a while.

Using laser VS plasma weapons always been a great source of argument for Xcom fans. Laser weapons are easy to use, available sooner and usually all have auto shot which is a feature a lot of people swear from. Plasma weapon however pack a bigger punch and usually have a higher accuracy, especially with aimed shots. What I do myself at the end of the game is to give all my crackshots plasma weapons (they almost never miss), and give my new recruits laser weapon and hope the auto shot will do it's job.

Anyways, what I always personally do is aim to research medkit then personal armor first of all, then look to get better weapons. No use to have uber weapons if you have nobody to fire them. :)
Laser weapons are not useless, the only weapons better than laser rifles are heavy plasma, I acknowledge that, but not plasma rifles: being more accurate in snap and auto shot, are a little less powerful, and if you want accuracy you have the aimed shot which is equally accurate in both laser and plasma rifle, but takes less TUs for the plasma rifle. Add to this that sectopods are specially resistant to plasma and at the same time specially vulnerable to laser, and no alien is resistant to laser. And that unlimited ammo doesn't mean only that you don't need to worry about clips and about possibly manufacturing them using elerium up, but it also means that without the need to carry clips in the ship, there's more room for other items. Like grenades which are really powerful and always land close enough, whereas guns may fail every time.

I plan to do just like you and equip my best men with heavy plasma, but for the rest of the men and until then, laser rifles are very good. About heavy laser, it isn't really worth it however you look at it. True each shot is more powerful, but with the same TUs that you spend to do a snap shot with a heavy laser worth 85 damage, you can make an auto shot with the laser rifle which means three shot worth 60 damage each, and each of the three has nearly the same accuracy as the single snap shot with the heavy laser. So laser rifles aren't only better than heavy laser overall, they're far more powerful (3x60=180 versus 85) at the end of the day.

For me the first research prorities are motion scanner and laser weapons then laser pistol then laser rifle. If you really know your stuff as to moving in a way that you deny the aliens the initiative (see my post about lines of sight some pages back), laser rifles (pistols are worthless) are actually more urgent than motion scanners, but the former need three research stages (weapons > pistol > rifle) whereas the latter need only one, so in the end it's probably a better idea to research motion scanners first. Plus they're the best to produce for sale until you research laser cannon much later. Still facing a terror attack without laser or plasma weapons is not nice, I just had to, you'd better pack lots of grenades if you have to.

Medikits aren't really a priority until you have personal armour since the likeliest occurrence when an unarmoured soldier is hit by plasma is instant death. So next could go alien alloys then personal armour, but not really before laser weapons in my opinion, first and foremost because normal weapons are good as toys but nothing else and it's really urgent to get something better, and also because after all a human loss is not that terrible this early in the game, but later when the soldiers have experience. After armour research medikits, and then I'd go for heavy plasma and clip (this is where I'm now). Don't bother about plasma pistols, they're worthless, and I won't bother about plasma rifles either. After heavy plasma I guess I'll research laser cannon (after heavy laser but only because it's necessary for the cannon) even though I won't use it (only avalanche then plasma cannon) but only produce it for sale.

By the way before I have laser weapons I only use pistols. Rifles are just plain worse and their power is only marginally higher. The bigger punch of heavy and auto cannons is not really worth the unreasonable amounts of TUs they spend. Pistols can shot lots of times in a turn (two pistol shots are together as powerful as a heavy cannon one) and one or two shots usually dispatch sectoids and floaters and if you plan to shoot at something tougher before you get laser or plasma weapons (and you won't have to outside terror attacks), you'd better use grenades instead.


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