What Languages Do You Use ?

[chickenman]

I use Assembly, C, C++ and Java.
I've also done a bit of Basic, Python and Perl.
:w00t:

[omg]

use english

[chickenman]

I'm talking about programming languages :P

[BeefontheBone]

Quite fond of French, myself.

[Eagle of Fire]

The only language I ever learned was Basica, and it been so long I probably forgot 90% of it.

[Blood-Pigggy]

C++ and C before that, I used to dabble in Java, and even wonked around with Micromedia Flash and it's programming language.
Worked on DarkBASIC for quite some time, and then went to the really easy C-Script which I am now using to make a game.

[SupSuper]

C++, Delphi (Object Pascal), ActionScript

[plix]

Depends on the task. I use Perl, PHP, C, and Java fairly regularly, though I'm eager to replace Java with C# for most cases (cross-platform, non-performance-critical GUI apps). I can also code in Basic, C++, and Python (from the list) in addition to a dozen or so languages not mentioned.

"What language" you use isn't in general isn't nearly as important as selecting the right language for the task.

[swiss]

I do lots in AppleScript (AS) and I once was quite good at ActionScript, Pascal and Basic ... but to be honest the only language I can make something that works is AppleScript ...

[Javaguy]

lets see now :)
Java, HTML-Javascript (doubt it counts) C++, DarkBasic, VB..
and I manage to be rubbish at All of them :ok:

[Shady Yashy]

Uhhhhh? :blink:

English I Guess.

[Nick]

VC++. I'm currently writing Character Generator based on Dungeon & Dragons 2ed. rules. VB is buggy in "if" blocks, and there a lot of them in my gen. If it won't be so, I would write in VB.

[Don Andy]

Mainly C++, a bit of C# and a lot of Delphi for school.

[Reup]

Java :Titan:

A bit of PHP as well. And since very recently Ruby! (so I voted more then 1)

[chickenman]

Cool I see lot's of people use C++ :P

[Bobbin Threadbare]

I use AGS.

[Kon-Tiki]

C/C++
AGI
Java (when I really need to)
VB (idem ditto)

[Master MC]

Don't laugh at me, I make programs on my calculator (CASIO fx-9850). :tomato:

[Xalo]

i use pascal and basic... nothing too special, but quite good for my age. i'm the only here who hates all those "visual" langauges? why all that (word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).( word).(word).(word).(word).(word) is necesary? i understand object programing but thats not order to make it more easy, it's like bureaucracy!!

[plix]

Originally posted by Xalo@Jan 23 2006, 10:06 AM
i use pascal and basic... nothing too special, but quite good for my age. i'm the only here who hates all those "visual" langauges? why all that (word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).( word).(word).(word).(word).(word) is necesary? i understand object programing but thats not order to make it more easy, it's like bureaucracy!!
Object-orientation didn't originate with, nor is it unique to, the "Visual" family of programming language dialects. Furthermore, OOP provides the same abstraction as a bureaucracy, but that abstraction provides a lot more than just complex indirection. I love procedural programming as much as anyone, but using OOP for large projects (anything over 10k lines or so) makes the source a lot easier to understand and maintain.

[Xalo]

Originally posted by plix+Jan 23 2006, 05:02 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (plix @ Jan 23 2006, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-Xalo@Jan 23 2006, 10:06 AM
i use pascal and basic... nothing too special, but quite good for my age. i'm the only here who hates all those "visual" langauges? why all that (word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).(word).( word).(word).(word).(word).(word) is necesary? i understand object programing but thats not order to make it more easy, it's like bureaucracy!!
Object-orientation didn't originate with, nor is it unique to, the "Visual" family of programming language dialects. Furthermore, OOP provides the same abstraction as a bureaucracy, but that abstraction provides a lot more than just complex indirection. I love procedural programming as much as anyone, but using OOP for large projects (anything over 10k lines or so) makes the source a lot easier to understand and maintain. [/b][/quote]
maybe it is easier for big projects, but still i dislike this system(it's only my personal opinion).

[chickenman]

Can you please try to stay on topic !

: It looks like C++ is the most used around here
:)
still no one uses assembly :(

[Xalo]

Originally posted by chickenman@Jan 24 2006, 09:34 AM
Can you please try to stay on topic !

: It looks like C++ is the most used around here
:)
still no one uses assembly :(
what is that assembly? i use something called "assembler" in pascal. is it the same?

[Rogue]

Other lnaguages....

C, C++, Java, PHP, Java Scripts, HTML, Basic (my first programming language), Visual Basic (from version 4), VB for Applications (Access mostly).

[STFM]

I did z81, 68000 and mc68hc11 assembly and C in university - not fun.
Now Java. Previous Pascal, Forth, Smalltalk, Cobol, CL, RPG, C+, Lattice C, GFA and other archaic languages :)

[Xalo]

Originally posted by Master MC@Jan 22 2006, 01:49 PM
Don't laugh at me, I make programs on my calculator (CASIO fx-9850). :tomato:
my friend, quite a computer master for his age, said me that on calculator you can only make algorithmes, not true programs.

truely sorry to admins for taking off from topic, all my respect :kosta: :kosta:
but i must say this:
MC master:
i finaly figured out why bureaucracy kept it alive for 13 years - it took 13 years to write and sign all forms to make it officialy dead :D
sorry to admins again :kosta: :kosta: :kosta:

[Kon-Tiki]

't Depends, I guess. I've made whole UI-based programs on a TI800 calculator, back in highschool. Shouldn't've forced us all to get those calculators if they didn't want people to make programs on it that'd cheat on tests. Of course, by the time it was made, you knew what you had to know inside-out :whistle:

Anyways, you actually can make real programs for calculators. There was even Zelda for the TI800.

[Master MC]

@Xalo: very lame joke :tomato: :D

Well I did make some nice programs, both entertaining and useful. It is easy to impress newb-like classmates.

Oops, exam in one hour, better write a program...

[Xalo]

then is there any diference between calculator and computers then?
technology evolutes much faster than humans do....
once 1gb hdd was something incredible, but now there are hdds with capacity
of terrabytes(1000 gb) and that's not the border.

P.S. mc, sorry for that joke, i was just defending my point of view.
better nazi than that what was in my country

[Master MC]

I always thought the definition of a computer is 'something you can program'. So calculators are in fact computers.

@Xalo
What happened in Latvia? What could be worse than Nazi regime? Russian occupation?
Sorry if I don't know the history of Latvia...

[Mara]

Shouldn't've forced us all to get those calculators if they didn't want people to make programs on it that'd cheat on tests


my friend, quite a computer master for his age, said me that on calculator you can only make algorithmes, not true programs.
depands on the calculator ;) My ti 98 runs C programs quitte ok ;) (using the right compiler and functions)
if you want a calucalor 2 solution either use a prossesor (and programs), either electronics. But you won't get really far with no prossesor.

I know C++, java, c, php, javascript, assembly, Qbasic, VB, whathever the basic language from my calculator is called.

[Xalo]

in truth, i like the technical progress. soon we could play these games from abandonia on phones(at least 320x200 resolution ones)! and bit later you could play abondware on your calculator!

@Master MC
yes, soviet occupation and what an ocupation!
much people were sent to siberia and many fled to countries like canada, australia and so. soviet times were total opposite to present - everybody had money but there were nothing in shops and if there were, it was terribly expensive. only thing of those times i have seen are books - ten times censored, full with soviet propoganda. i had one about WWII, you would never believe all that. for example, there are several times that whole world was against the soviet union. say, if it would be true, would anyone care to open the west frontline? propoganda, propoganda


admins - sorry from taking off from topic

[Bp103]

I use $P, $G, I just program bacth files

[_M@gno]

More than one (I don't think there is a guy that only knows 1 language)

I know how to make a program using:
Pascal
C
C++
PHP (Well... this one is not used for making programs)
VB :not_ok: (I learnt this one at highschool and... i don't really like it... in fact it sucks)
(think HTML doesn't count)...

but... i've got a question:

:blink: Why are you asking?... What is the point?... What are you trying to find out? (if you are trying to find out something)... Not my intention to be rough... just asking :ok: .

[Kon-Tiki]

Getting a general idea of what's mainly used, or might be useful to know who to ask 'bout what, I suppose. At least that's what I'd use it for.

[_M@gno]

That's a good reason... :ok:
Anyway... I thoght he was trying to start out something with others...

[Ninja]

The only languages I use are HTML and PHP. :|

[Eagg]

You know one, you know them all, at least with the oo languages.

If you are seriously into programming you can't go without C/C++.
Assembler (Assembly) is not needed anymore in most cases, unless you work very close to undocumented hardware (no os api).

I am actually working more with Java myself, but that is only because university forces me to (practial exercises/experiments). It is quite a strong language but is based on a very inefficient VM.

Python gives a lot of options to skilled programmers, since it is not a strict langauge, there are some people calling themselves python-jedis and their code works by symbolic hand movements somehow I heard.
It is a nice concept for a clean looking language, though it's open style (no strict types) makes it less efficient than C.

And... not trying to break some peoples illusions, but HTML is no programming language :max: .

[plix]

Originally posted by Eagg@May 11 2006, 05:30 PM
You know one, you know them all, at least with the oo languages.
"OO languages" is pretty indeterminate... Lisp supports OO, but you're run-of-the-mill J2EE clown (not a reference to anyone around here, just a real-life frustration of mine) isn't going to understand jack about it. Knowing C++ will greatly aid in the comprehension of C, but it's still a decent gap in paradigms. Understanding C pointers -- which C++ hides to a pretty significant extent when you think about it -- is just crucial, and it's something completely absent from Java (as is memory management).

Then there are languages like Self, Smalltalk, Objective-C and so-on which are all entities unto themselves and which will really throw an "OO coder" for a loop. This is all notwithstanding the difficulty I've noticed which some people seem to have thinking in a procedural manner (think: C) when they've learned Java first.

Edit for clarification: I realize that Smalltalk and ObjC are object oriented, but they idea of messaging introduced in both is completely foreign to "traditional" OO languages (which, again, I realize is an interesting comment as Smalltalk is generally considered the granddaddy of all OO languages).

[Eagg]

You are right, I was generalizing too far.
I was thinking more of the "major" languages like C, C++, Java.
If you had a portion of functional languages like Haskell aswell then the rest is usually similar to either of them, unless it is Prolog ;).

Btw. did you know that programming in Smalltalk atm is by far the best payed programming job? I guess sometimes it payes being part of a species close to extinction.

[guesst]

So can anybody guess what I voted?

PS, if any bonehead feels the need to actually shower us with their brilliance and answer that, please refrain. It was retroical.

[Merri]

VB6 and I actually like it. PHP and JavaScript are the other languages I use regularly. Web languages are also high on my list.

I've done some C/C++ and Pascal, but neither really kicked in. I managed to do cave flying game with C, but that's about it. I'm looking forward to FreeBasic, hoping some day it would expand to be a truly great cross-platform basic. It lacks a few important features at the moment, but if they get done, I might consider making it my primary desktop application language. I like the feel of the language.

.NET is something I just don't like at all.

[GrimFang4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagg @ May 11 2006, 06:30 PM) 230127</div>
And... not trying to break some peoples illusions, but HTML is no programming language :max: .
[/b]


Hey, but JavaScript could be.

I use C++ all the time. For school, I had to use Java, Scheme, and Perl. I would use Perl for quick text processing and Java for anything that is way out of my league (because the built-in API and documentation is great), but C++ and SDL are what I use to program my games. I also know TI-83+ and have made a few games on that, but you can't do much unless you use a TI-83+ assembler on your PC. Assembly languages are different for each architecture you use, so I don't think there's a point to learning any particular assembly language. Scheme (a dialect of LISP) is yucky. Don't use Scheme or LISP. I got good with it, but the only good use for it is a strongly list-based program. Perl might be good for internet stuff, but I'd expect that PHP and Python are more widely used (and that's what matters when you depend on your server running the programs).

And finally, I'm strongly against interpreted languages! Even though I know a few of them, I can't stand that I can't just send my friends an executable when I program in Java, Perl, or Scheme! That's why I love C++. Python, Java, D, and C# might have some great uses, but I want a compiler, not an interpreter! :ranting:

[velik_m]

i think there are some java compilers that compile an exe - do a search on net.
interpreted languages are very useful some times, plus you don't need to recompile for each code fix.

[plix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244</div>Hey, but JavaScript could be.[/b]
JavaScript is a full-blown programming language (it's Self with a C-like syntax). That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that HTML is a markup language and not a programming language.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244</div>Scheme (a dialect of LISP) is yucky. Don't use Scheme or LISP. I got good with it, but the only good use for it is a strongly list-based program. Perl might be good for internet stuff, but I'd expect that PHP and Python are more widely used (and that's what matters when you depend on your server running the programs).[/b]
Perl is extremely widely used outside of web/internet applications. On any *nix machine you're likely to run in to it constantly (the auto* family of GNU tools, numerous system administration tools, etc). PHP and Python are both widely used, but Perl is quite a bit older, more mature, and I'd bet pretty strongly that it still has a significantly larger market share.

As for Lisp, I believe you're quite wrong. The syntax isn't at all C-like, but Lisp is easily one of the most elegant, powerful environments ever created. Really learning Lisp gives you an understanding of true programming concepts (functional, reflective, and otherwise) that make it unlike anything else. Scheme is a restricted subset; I might suggest ANSI Common Lisp instead. Lisp macros alone distinguish the language.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244</div>And finally, I'm strongly against interpreted languages! Even though I know a few of them, I can't stand that I can't just send my friends an executable when I program in Java, Perl, or Scheme! That's why I love C++. Python, Java, D, and C# might have some great uses, but I want a compiler, not an interpreter! :ranting:
[/b]
Java isn't an interpreted language, it's a bytecode-compiled language (just like C#). Java and C# are also almost always JITed and, as velik_m mentioned, there are AOT compilers available for Java (such as GCJ). "Just sending [your] friend[s]" and executable also illustrates a point explicitly "solved" by Java: portability. Sending your friends a "true" executable is only workable when your friends are running the same OS on the same architecture. What if they're running Linux or FreeBSD; what if they're running on an Alpha or an Arm or a Sparc?

I love C (I can't stand the abomination which is C++) and I always will, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating the elegance of Lisp, the sheer power of Perl when it comes to text processing, or the usefulness of Java in middleware.

[guesst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 28 2006, 02:16 AM) 245589</div>I love C (I can't stand the abomination which is C++) and I always will, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating the elegance of Lisp, the sheer power of Perl when it comes to text processing, or the usefulness of Java in middleware.
[/b]

Well how come I haven't seen you around here (http://www.abandonia.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10836) yet? It's a bit self promoting, I know, but I'd love to get your feedback and if you wanted to, take a crack at modifying the programs there. It's kinda wrapping up now, or at least slowing down, but that'll give you plenty of chance to get caught up if ya like.

[Moonstrider]

I'm trying to learn Java, but I can't do much beyond 'Hello world' yet. :P Still reading about all the ideas behind it...
I hope to learn more languages if i find programming fun though. I just chose to start with Java because my dad is a teacher in that language and has a lot of books on it. :)

[velik_m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 28 2006, 02:16 AM) 245589</div>
I love C (I can't stand the abomination which is C++) and I always will, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating the elegance of Lisp, the sheer power of Perl when it comes to text processing, or the usefulness of Java in middleware.[/b]

what exactly makes the C++ abomination? In what way is the C better than C++? is there a thing that you can do with C and can't do with C++?
C is the ugliest language out there, if there was just one advice i could give to programming beginer it would be: don't learn C, ever.
C++ is ugly too, but is superior to C in every way.

[Maramil]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moonstrider @ Jul 28 2006, 07:20 AM) 245602</div>
I'm trying to learn Java, but I can't do much beyond 'Hello world' yet. :P Still reading about all the ideas behind it...
[/b]

^_^ Exactly, me to...

[guesst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(velik_m @ Jul 28 2006, 08:12 AM) 245605</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 28 2006, 02:16 AM) 245589
I love C (I can't stand the abomination which is C++) and I always will, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating the elegance of Lisp, the sheer power of Perl when it comes to text processing, or the usefulness of Java in middleware.[/b]

what exactly makes the C++ abomination? In what way is the C better than C++? is there a thing that you can do with C and can't do with C++?
C is the ugliest language out there, if there was just one advice i could give to programming beginer it would be: don't learn C, ever.
C++ is ugly too, but is superior to C in every way.
[/b][/quote]
Well I'm (naturally) going to have to disagree with you. Both of you to some degree. But especally velik, your responce shows such a lack of knowledge about programming languages that it makes you look ignorant. So let me help enlighten you.

C was created to be modular, and to be little more than a half step between asembly language and the user. If you've ever used assembly you realize just how close to assembly C is. That's it's strength. You can pretty much predict what the computer's going to get when you write any given line in C.

C++ was an extension of C (made possible by C's modability). It was designed to use the best of C in an Object-Oriented paradgim. While it succeed in that the predictability of the code generated was lost.

The fact is both has their place. C is easier but simpler, C++ is more robust but more complicated. Both have their arenas. Neither is better than the other. Let's just agree to dissagree and not bash the other. If a language truly sucked it would go the way of Logo.

OS @Maramil, love the Av.

[velik_m]

i never said it sucked, i said it's ugly, full of constructs that do nothing but make the code harder to understand. C modular? <_< hardly.
and if i wanted to use asembler i would use asembler.

[guesst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(velik_m @ Jul 28 2006, 04:54 PM) 245671</div>
i never said it sucked, i said it's ugly, full of constructs that do nothing but make the code harder to understand. C modular? <_< hardly.
and if i wanted to use asembler i would use asembler.
[/b]
Of course it's modular. That's what #include is for. Try doing that in BASIC. (The original, not VB.) It's been a standard of every language since. And the fact that there are still programs written in C is a tribute to it's strength. No matter what new language comes and outlives it's purpose, C stays around and get's languages based on it over and over again.

Now I'm not defending C to the debasement of other languages. infact, I'm kinda tired of this now, so I'm going to have this be my final word on the subject. Still think C is not as good as toher languages? Fine, whatever.

[velik_m]

from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_programming_language):

As an Algol-based language, C has the following characteristics:

* A procedural programming paradigm, with facilities for structured programming
* Lexical variable scope and recursion
* A type system which prevents many meaningless operations
* Function parameters are generally passed by value (pass-by-reference is achieved in C by explicitly passing pointer values)
* Heterogenous aggregate data types (struct in C) which allow related data elements to be combined and manipulated as a unit
* A relatively small set of reserved keywords

C also has the following specific properties:

* Low-level access to computer memory via machine addresses and pointers
* Function pointers allow for a rudimentary form of closures and runtime polymorphism
* A standardized C preprocessor for macro definition, source code file inclusion, conditional compilation, etc.
* A simple, small core language, with functionality such as mathematical functions and file handling provided by library routines
* C discarded the well established logical connectives and and or of most other algol derivatives and replaced them with && and ||.
* && and || were invented in order to make bit-wise operations (& and |) syntactically distinct ? C's predecessor B used & and | for both meanings.
* C popularized the controversial decision to free the equal-sign for assignment use by replacing = with == (inherited from B).

As a systems implementation language, C lacks features found in other languages:

* No non-scalar operations such as copying of arrays or strings (old versions of C did not even copy structs automatically).
* No automatic garbage collection
* No bounds checking of arrays (expensive in languages with only scalar operations)
* No semi-dynamic (i.e. stacked, runtime-sized) arrays until the C99 standard (despite not requiring garbage collection).
* No syntax for ranges, such as the A..B notation used in both newer and older languages (does not fit scalar-only semantics well).
* No nested functions, though the GCC compiler provides this feature as an extension
* No closures or functions as parameters, only machine-level function pointers
* No generators or coroutines; intra-thread control flow consists of nested function calls, barring the (somewhat arcane) use of the longjmp or setcontext library functions
* No exception handling; standard library functions signify error conditions with the global errno variable
* Very rudimentary support for modular programming; a cumbersome compilation model dependent on operating system-specific tools.
* No compile-time polymorphism in the form of function or operator overloading; only rudimentary support for generic programming
* No support for object-oriented programming, although C++ was originally implemented as a preprocessor that translated C++ into C; there are libraries offering object systems for C, and many object-oriented languages are themselves written in C


i wasn't the only one who noticed. C is a useful language, but C++>C. (if you don't belive me test it in code :bleh:)

[ReamusLQ]

English and Frence...

[Shadikka]

Mostly Python and PHP, then mediocre skill in Java, meager skill in C and C#. I wonder why I have never tried C++ :D

[GrimFang4]

Can I get any more quotey?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM) 245589</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244Hey, but JavaScript could be.[/b]
JavaScript is a full-blown programming language (it's Self with a C-like syntax). That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that HTML is a markup language and not a programming language.
[/b][/quote]

JavaScript has quite a bit to do with HTML when it is usually included within HTML code. I'm trying to point out that within the common usage of HTML, you can find a programming language, JavaScript.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM) 245589</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244Scheme (a dialect of LISP) is yucky. Don't use Scheme or LISP. I got good with it, but the only good use for it is a strongly list-based program. Perl might be good for internet stuff, but I'd expect that PHP and Python are more widely used (and that's what matters when you depend on your server running the programs).[/b]
Perl is extremely widely used outside of web/internet applications. On any *nix machine you're likely to run in to it constantly (the auto* family of GNU tools, numerous system administration tools, etc). PHP and Python are both widely used, but Perl is quite a bit older, more mature, and I'd bet pretty strongly that it still has a significantly larger market share.
[/b][/quote]

I've found that if you choose a random server, they more often than not support Python and PHP whereas you have to ask them nicely to install Perl. Perl can be good for other internet stuff, but Python and PHP I would suspect are better for webpages. You'll notice that my experience is with Perl, not Python or PHP.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM) 245589</div>
As for Lisp, I believe you're quite wrong. The syntax isn't at all C-like, but Lisp is easily one of the most elegant, powerful environments ever created. Really learning Lisp gives you an understanding of true programming concepts (functional, reflective, and otherwise) that make it unlike anything else. Scheme is a restricted subset; I might suggest ANSI Common Lisp instead. Lisp macros alone distinguish the language.
[/b]

Lisp is elegant, yes. But does that make it less yucky of a language? Scheme and Lisp are indeed great for learning programming concepts, but why should I use them if anything else (read "useful" or "fun") is too convoluted to do easily? This is especially true because in order to do anything beyond learning programming ideas with Scheme/Lisp, you need to break it's natural elegance with a structural "begin" statement. Scheme is a little restricted, but it represents a lot about Lisp.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM) 245589</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Jul 26 2006, 11:23 AM) 245244And finally, I'm strongly against interpreted languages! Even though I know a few of them, I can't stand that I can't just send my friends an executable when I program in Java, Perl, or Scheme! That's why I love C++. Python, Java, D, and C# might have some great uses, but I want a compiler, not an interpreter! :ranting:
[/b]
Java isn't an interpreted language, it's a bytecode-compiled language (just like C#). Java and C# are also almost always JITed and, as velik_m mentioned, there are AOT compilers available for Java (such as GCJ). "Just sending [your] friend[s]" and executable also illustrates a point explicitly "solved" by Java: portability. Sending your friends a "true" executable is only workable when your friends are running the same OS on the same architecture. What if they're running Linux or FreeBSD; what if they're running on an Alpha or an Arm or a Sparc?
[/b][/quote]

Java is interpreted. The bytecode is read at run-time just like a script. The evidence behind it being an interpreted language: You need to install a bytecode interpreter to run any Java programs! This isn't portability as long as Java isn't standard on all machines. "Write once run anywhere" that there happens to be a certain other program installed. Newer Java programs can't be run on some older Java Run-time Environment installations either. Now, I mostly write games. What is the gaming scene like on Linux compared to Windows? FreeBSD vs. Windows? Mac vs. Windows? If I really want to port to another system, then I'll crosscompile it (SDL is portable).


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(plix @ Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM) 245589</div>
I love C (I can't stand the abomination which is C++) and I always will, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating the elegance of Lisp, the sheer power of Perl when it comes to text processing, or the usefulness of Java in middleware.
[/b]

Programming languages are easier to use, more powerful, and more popular when they reflect a human's interpretation of the real world. Why doesn't everyone use assembly? C++ offers abstractions and even just organization that reflects the real world. As in a book I read, wanna make a microwave in C++? Make a class Microwave that inherits from class Oven and has functions like insertFood(Food item), cook(int time), and removeFood(). Can you do that in C without a severe cluttering of the namespace? Wait... There are no namespaces.

*Final note on Lisp: An elegant girl can be trashy when she tries to have fun.

[STFM]

"Write once run anywhere" that there happens to be a certain other program installed. Newer Java programs can't be run on some older Java Run-time Environment installations either.
[/b]
Yes but the point is to run a newer java program all you have to do is install a new JVM. And machines can run multiple JVM versions at once.

Its a language much more suited to business applications rather than games. For example I write applications on my Windows XP box that get deployed to Windows 2000, iSeries and AIX production servers. I only write the code once and compile it once and this saves my employer money.

[Arjan]

I use basic to make games on my calculator :)

[carpetsmoker]

PHP
Greatly undervalued as OS scripting language, almost a drop-in replacement for perl, all it needs is some more packages (a-la-cpan)

perl
Perl sucks if you ask me, I never quite understood why some things are as they are in perl (why can't I just pass variables the normal way? like any other language, grrr...)
I use it when I need it (modifying other scripts usually)

C
I still need to think of a nice project to start in C - everything seems to be done already ... anyway, I learned it some time ago...

MSXBASIC
Where I started ten years ago, spagethi code all the way!!

shell scripting
Not really a language ...

Unrealcode
Made half a mod for Deus ex, never finished it ... Deus ex community was dying anyway...

[Iowa]

I just use HTML, i'm too lazy/not committed enough to learn any other language. I want to learn Java, though...

My website (http://www.geocities.com/blackshadowfox101) is programmed in HTML

[carpetsmoker]

HTML isn't a programming language, it's a markup language, like SGML, XML ect.
HyperText Markup Language

[Reup]

XML is not a markup language. It's a data modelling language which you can use for markup.

[carpetsmoker]

XML:
eXtensible Markup Language

By the way, Eindhoven is a great city!

[Iowa]

...I give up...

[GrimFang4]

Perl definitely borrows too much from Awk and Sed. You can make your code look like nearly any other language, but that requires extra, normally unneccessary code lines. Passing arguments like other languages? You have to assign them to variables at the beginning of the function. Regular expressions? Powerful but disgusting. Switch statements? Don't get me started. It's just plain messy. That's why Perl is known as one of the most confusing languages to read after it's been written. Sure one can do almost anything in just one line of Perl, but if anyone wanted to change anything, then too bad. It gets ugly.

Java would be great if everyone in the world had high-speed internet access.

Iowa, if you're looking for a programming language, I strongly suggest Java if you want to write utilities and I suggest C++ if you want to write games. HTML won't get you into the world of other programmers, but it is nice to know. If you learn C++ first, it is very easy to learn Java. The syntax is nearly identical and Java just represents a higher abstraction of good C++ code. Java is newbie-friendly, but if you're serious about game dev, then you should be serious enough for the challenge of learning C++. If you PM me, I'll hook you up with some basics on either language.

[carpetsmoker]

There's nothing wrong with borrowing anything from either sed or awk, or any other program for that matter, as long as it adds something usefull.
That's opensource for you!

I'm not crazy...Everyone is hyping perl and I thought I was the only one to think that perl sucked...
Perl regexp's are one of the few things I actually do like in perl, sure, they can get hairy, sure, they can be hard to maintain, but it's very powerfull, and if you split everything up in multiple lines and add comments they can also be readable and maintanable...(then again, if the code was hard to write, it should be hard to read :) )

Java great?
I must admit don't have alot (actually none, apart from looking at it) programming experience with java, but this is due to my bad user experience with java.

It's slow for a starters, really, REALLY slow.
It's not available for all platforms, FreeBSD binairy's have only recently been released, and what about NetBSD? and a hunderd other platforms?
Also, it's OO, I know that OOP is being hyped by alot of people, but my experience is that it's only usefull in some rare circumtances, and slower in all circumstances.
I suppose I'm just not a OO kind of guy...

[Iowa]

Well, I appreciate your help GrimFang, but I already have my brother's college Java book. I'm sure I could learn all I needed from that if I were to start Java, but right now I get the feeling that if I learn a bit more HTML, it'll be easier...

[GrimFang4]

Oooh, don't rely solely on a textbook. That's what I've learned from my as yet 3 years of college. Which textbook is it? Most won't start off in a place where non-programmers can begin.

EDIT: Oh, and HTML won't make any programming language easier to use. You won't learn any programming concepts from HTML.

Carpetsmoker, I think that sometimes useful things can bog down an otherwise nice language. Ugly syntax from Awk and Sed make things worse for Perl developers and definitely for newbies. A language should not require you to separate things an extra amount and add extra comments to make anything readable.

As for Java, it is a little slow. I don't consider that a good reason to put it off though because 1) Every Java upgrade comes with a faster run-time environment, 2) Very few languages and almost no interpreted languages (like Perl) can match speed with C++ and that hasn't stopped great things from coming from each language, 3) Processor speeds have reached a level such that speed is not normally an issue unless you run stuff on old computers, and 4) Perfect speed doesn't matter very much if your application is not a video game.

I don't care much about portability, but I said that was a flaw of Java earlier. Maybe you don't understand fully what OOP is. OOP will be slower when running, but helps immensely when planning and writing a program. It can make deep concepts become intuitive. You said Java is an OO language, but all modern languages try to be. The point is that you don't have to use a complete OOP style to benefit from the inclusion of that ability in the language. Do you use objects? You had better!

[velik_m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iowa @ Aug 14 2006, 03:44 AM) 248468</div>
I just use HTML, i'm too lazy/not committed enough to learn any other language. I want to learn Java, though...

My website (http://www.geocities.com/blackshadowfox101) is programmed in HTML
[/b]

you might read this webpage (http://www.users.nac.net/falken/annoying/main.html) on webpage design.

Learning programming languages is not really that hard, just start simple and practice a lot. Java is great for beginners.

[Eagg]

I find it amusing that on some boards, this one included, people still argue about oop vs procedural programing.

With todays' complexity of the applications and especially games there is simply no point to compare those both forms with each other, it's not about better or worse, it's about possible or impossible.

GrimFang4, on what facts do you base your opinion that oop will run slower than procedural.
The compiling/linking part might be slower, but then you have native code and the CPU doesn't care how it got created, imho.

If you mean that framework languages run slower than native code, that's true.
But again, at some point and a given increase of application complexity there will be no choice but to switch almost completly to framework languages.

This is how all natural and non-natural things in our nice universe develop. They start out simple and efficient (better say become efficient over some time) and then the next things build on them and increase the complexity by abstraction. The higher the abstraction the lower the efficiency, but you couldn't care less since you have no choice.

[GrimFang4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagg @ Aug 19 2006, 08:46 AM) 249609</div>
I find it amusing that on some boards, this one included, people still argue about oop vs procedural programing.
[/b]

We're discussing, not arguing, I believe. OOP vs. procedural does have merit in a discussion since both have uses.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagg @ Aug 19 2006, 08:46 AM) 249609</div>
With todays' complexity of the applications and especially games there is simply no point to compare those both forms with each other, it's not about better or worse, it's about possible or impossible.

GrimFang4, on what facts do you base your opinion that oop will run slower than procedural.
The compiling/linking part might be slower, but then you have native code and the CPU doesn't care how it got created, imho.
[/b]


It's not just my opinion that OO programs run slower. Why are you just trying to refute my "opinion" with your "humble opinion" anyway? Defeats the purpose of labelling yourself humble. You can either look up the information yourself, test some code yourself, or sit back and listen (assuming you know what it's all about already). Object-oriented programming is deeply based on Pointers/References/Addresses. It can be seen logically that looking up a memory address and then checking a variable will take more time than just checking a variable. Then think about objects with object members. Following pointers to pointers to pointers, you'll be slowing your program down. It's not such a big deal as I mentioned before with our awesome computer capabilities, but it does make a difference. This is why linked lists are slower than arrays most of the time. Compilers do not make everything into some super great 'native code'. You'll notice that there are usually several ways to get an identical result when programming. When run, they probably won't take the same amount of time. Without optimizations, a compiler will take exactly what you give it and convert it to machine code.

When talking about "possible or impossible", it makes no difference. Every task procedural can do, OO can do and vice-versa. The problem indeed lies with complexity. Programs written procedurally can get out of hand way easier than those written in an OO style.

It almost seems like you already knew when you (puzzlingly) said this...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagg @ Aug 19 2006, 08:46 AM) 249609</div>
This is how all natural and non-natural things in our nice universe develop. They start out simple and efficient (better say become efficient over some time) and then the next things build on them and increase the complexity by abstraction. The higher the abstraction the lower the efficiency, but you couldn't care less since you have no choice.
[/b]

[Eagg]

Let's take C and C++ for example.
Both have their uses today, C mostly at close to hardware development (sometimes together with ASM) and C++ mostly in application/game development.
So it is very likely to see an API/wrapper/library being written in C, but hardly any new "big" game, of course the game will make use of the API/wrapper/libraries.

Of course I know that everything possible in oop is also possible in procedural, but when you consider something possible or impossible to develop you need to take alot of things into account. The timeframe/man power a project needs to finish is a very important aspect and can make a project financially impossible (not profitable).
That is the reason I talk about complexity of programs and not the technical aspects of those.

I would never say that there is no use for procedural programming, I just think there is no use for such discussions.

About oop making programs run slower, I never claimed that I know that it isn't the case, it was just news to me and thought you could clear that up. That is the reason I added the "imho".

English is my third language and I may understand everything but when trying to express myself I might choose my words not perfectly fitting to its intended meaning (arguing) .

Don't try to "look down" on people judging by the way they write and their choice of words, over 93% of the world population does not speak English natively and there is always a difference between knowing a language and thinking in that language.

[carpetsmoker]

Iowa:
If you're intrested in webdesign and programming, you might want try out PHP, PHP is designed for the web, it's easy to use, and you can probably have a functional application within a few days after starting with it
http://www.php.net

Originally posted by GrimFang4

As for Java, it is a little slow. I don't consider that a good reason to put it off though because
[...]
2) Very few languages and almost no interpreted languages (like Perl) can match speed with C++ and that hasn't stopped great things from coming from each language
) Processor speeds have reached a level such that speed is not normally an issue unless you run stuff on old computers, and 4) Perfect speed doesn't matter very much if your application is not a video game.

Interpreted languages will never reach the speed of compiled languages like C, C++, ect.
Define "Old computer" pentium 1? 2? 3?
Many people (including myself) are using a pentium2 or 3, java simply runs slow on that, it depends a bit on the quality of the application though ... but don't try running azereus or something....
It took 8 frelling kilobytes to put a man of the moon, why should be have to use frelling GIGABYTES to write a frelling letter?
Many developers have TOTALLY lost touch with reality as far as speed is concerned, every expects that you're running a dual-core pentium 4 with some fancy quadro nvidia card.
This is simply not true.
There are more older pc's in use than newer pc's, and this will always remain true.
Like I said, most users need their pc to only write a letter and browse the internet.
My point in all this: SPEED MATTERS!
Not as much as it did 20 years ago, but it still matters, now we just need to get the software developers to see that...

Originally posted by GrimFang4
I don't care much about portability, but I said that was a flaw of Java earlier. Maybe you don't understand fully what OOP is. OOP will be slower when running, but helps immensely when planning and writing a program. It can make deep concepts become intuitive. You said Java is an OO language, but all modern languages try to be. The point is that you don't have to use a complete OOP style to benefit from the inclusion of that ability in the language. Do you use objects? You had better!

I'm not saying that OOP can't be usefull.
Procedural programming can be just as effective, if used properly

I find it amusing that on some boards, this one included, people still argue about oop vs procedural programing.[/b]

Actually, this is my second discussion on the subject today :)

GrimFang4, on what facts do you base your opinion that oop will run slower than procedural.
The compiling/linking part might be slower, but then you have native code and the CPU doesn't care how it got created, imho.[/b]

try running a simple for loop 200.00 times in OO and in procedural


Don't try to "look down" on people judging by the way they write and their choice of words, over 93% of the world population does not speak English natively and there is always a difference between knowing a language and thinking in that language.[/b]

Fully agree on this one

Anyway.
My disliking of OO is, offourse, also a matter of taste, I prefer traditional programming because it's simpeler, more direct, and more scalable, I know what you're thinking, OO is more scalable, this only aplies to certain situations.

C can be used to manage large and complex programs, take a look at the BSD family of operating system's, it's written almost enterly in C., It's generally considered to be one of the most stable and secure operating systems.
Windows, on the other hand, is written in Visual C++, and, well, do I really need to post the general opinion about windows...?

[Iowa]

Wow...you've all been so helpfull...i'll remember that next time I want to know something about programming.

[STFM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(carpetsmoker @ Aug 20 2006, 12:00 PM) 249684</div>

Anyway.
My disliking of OO is, offourse, also a matter of taste, I prefer traditional programming because it's simpeler, more direct, and more scalable
[/b]

Its all just a matter of personal taste. Personally I find OO simpler and more direct.

[Reup]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Aug 20 2006, 12:17 AM) 249673</div>Object-oriented programming is deeply based on Pointers/References/Addresses.[/b]

That's not the case. OO is a paradigm. Not an implementation. It's a way of creating an abstract model of the problem at hand, and if used with a decent data-modelling language (such as UML) it can greatly simplify program design.

For most corporate (non real-time) applications, the maintainiblity of a program and the short(er) development times outweigh by far the execution speed. That's is why Java (J2EE) is used a lot in that sector. As for the speed. The new JIT-compiler does a pretty good job and even 3D games in Java run quite smoothly. You should however, pick the language most suitable for the task and not stick to a single one.

[Eagg]

Since this discussion made me curious about oop vs procedural execution speed, I wrote a little test program in C++.
I don't have time to search the program for logical errors, so I won't release it yet.
But if it is all correct, it shows that the speed varies a lot depending on compiler. With VS 2005 I got remarkable results that speak for oop in this case.

I will upload the source code tomorrow when I find some time to check it for errors.

This, of course, does not cover the oop languages vs procedural languages dialog, but only tests the truth behind the general statement: "oop makes programs slower" in C++ case.

[Reup]

It might only prove you're OO skills are not very high :|
I can write an OO program that is slow. Just instatiate a zillion objects; fill the heap with crap and voila. Slomo. Doesn't prove a thing.

[Eagg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reup @ Aug 22 2006, 09:09 AM) 250143</div>
It might only prove you're OO skills are not very high :|
I can write an OO program that is slow. Just instatiate a zillion objects; fill the heap with crap and voila. Slomo. Doesn't prove a thing.
[/b]
The same way you could fill the heap with arrays (especially multidimensional, new programmers admire those) without using objects, that is not the point.

Saying that oop makes it slower means that the same "function/idea" programmed with objects would run slower than without.

[GrimFang4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reup @ Aug 21 2006, 05:11 AM) 249863</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Aug 20 2006, 12:17 AM) 249673Object-oriented programming is deeply based on Pointers/References/Addresses.[/b]

That's not the case. OO is a paradigm. Not an implementation. It's a way of creating an abstract model of the problem at hand, and if used with a decent data-modelling language (such as UML) it can greatly simplify program design.
[/b][/quote]

OO is based on Pointers/References/Addresses when done correctly in C++/Java/Perl. You really have no choice but to use the implementation that your compiler uses. I didn't think it would be necessary, since we all know that functions and pointers take longer to work with than plain variables, but here's the code. I exaggerated the pointer to show that it is slower than procedural. C++ uses two forms of OO compared to Java. The first part of this test program is a variable that is an object. That isn't used too often when you're making a serious program, so I also have the pointer to an object (actually a triple pointer).

The point is that any full implementation of the OO paradigm is slower than a procedural implementation because you sacrifice speed for modularity and programming ease. That's a basic lesson in Comp Sci 2.

Word?




#include <iostream>
#include "time.h"

using namespace std;

class test
{
public:

****long setDatum(long i)
****{
********datum = i;
****}

****long datum;
};

int main()
{


****test OODatum;
****test*** OOPtr = new test**;
*****OOPtr = new test*;
******OOPtr = new test;

****long ProcDatum;

****clock_t startTime;
****clock_t endTime;



****for (int trials = 0; trials < 2; trials++)
****{
********float avg = 0;
********for (int j = 0; j < 10; j++)
********{
************startTime = clock();
************for (int i = 0; i < 100000000; i++)
****************OODatum.datum = i;
************endTime = clock();

************avg += endTime - startTime;
********}

********cout << endl << "OO Avg time taken: " << avg / 10 << endl;



********avg = 0;
********for (int j = 0; j < 10; j++)
********{
************startTime = clock();
************for (int i = 0; i < 100000000; i++)
****************OODatum.setDatum(i);
************endTime = clock();

************avg += endTime - startTime;
********}

********cout << endl << "OO w/Func Avg time taken: " << avg / 10 << endl;



********avg = 0;
********for (int j = 0; j < 10; j++)
********{
************startTime = clock();
************for (int i = 0; i < 100000000; i++)
****************(***OOPtr).datum = i;
************endTime = clock();

************avg += endTime - startTime;
********}

********cout << endl << "OO w/Ptr Avg time taken: " << avg / 10 << endl;



********avg = 0;
********for (int j = 0; j < 10; j++)
********{
************startTime = clock();
************for (int i = 0; i < 100000000; i++)
****************ProcDatum = i;
************endTime = clock();

************avg += endTime - startTime;
********}


********cout << endl << "Proc Avg time taken: " << avg / 10 << endl;

****}

****system("PAUSE");
****return 0;
}

[Eagg]

This is going offtopic, we should discuss that in the other topic I created.

Btw. your code is not usable on my machine, since the time is too short to be measured at all, except for the excessive pointer abused function, but I can't think of any practical use of it in programming.

[Iowa]

Umm, I have a question for all you knowledgable programmers: is there anywhere on the internet where I can get a Java editor (or whatever it's called), or can I just start programming Java with Sun Java that's already on the computer?

[Eagg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iowa @ Aug 29 2006, 12:54 AM) 251561</div>
Umm, I have a question for all you knowledgable programmers: is there anywhere on the internet where I can get a Java editor (or whatever it's called), or can I just start programming Java with Sun Java that's already on the computer?
[/b]
You will need the Java SDK which you can get from Sun Micr. and an editor (IDE).
My favourite for Java would be Eclipse, which you can get for free here (http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/).

With Eclipse comes also the instruction how to set it all up.

[Iowa]

Thank you...but I can't exactly download a 120 MB file on a dial-up connection, I think i'll see if I can get my brother's program, it's a platform for many different languages.

[Eagg]

Eclipse is not limited to Java development only, you get plugins for other languages also.

I think it is the most used Java IDE but I don't know of anyone using it for anything else, so I can't tell how well it is suited for other languages.

You may look out for JEdit or JCreator, they are small in size. But I had only bad experience with those myself.

[GrimFang4]

Hey Iowa,

Try BlueJ. It's usually used for teaching Java, but I found it very useful. It also gives you a graphical representation of your project. It's quite good.

[Xinithaous]

Years ago I learn't a fair bit of BASIC, which I found was a very simple language got me by etc. Now the only coding I really do is on Websites, mostly HTML, which LOL is also a beginners language though I am in the process of learning PHP which at first glances seems similar to C.

Also got to love Good Ol' Batch Scripts, not much of a language but when using DOS made life 10x easier :D

XiN

[FISHCHAIR]

i use 2 Languages, English, and foul! :bleh:

[The Punisher]

I use GML (Game Maker Language) I heard its very similar to C++
anyone else use GML? :)

[STFM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GrimFang4 @ Aug 17 2006, 12:24 AM) 248932</div>
Java would be great if everyone in the world had high-speed internet access.
[/b]
There is more to Java than just applets

[DOSGamar]

I use ruby, but I am thinking about trying some c++

[iluvpugs]

Back then, I was the master of BASIC now i forgot how to play a midi file in basic and lost about 98% of what i learned

[MdaG]

C++, Java and Python. Have some experience of C and Assembly too.

[Reup]

I've started with C# a while back! I must say, I like it! It has a lot in common with Java (which I also like and voted for, earlier). Currently trying to get my MCTS-certificate in .NET 2.0...

[Abi79]

A simple, and maybe stupid, question: what is C#? C++? Some other version I never heard about?

[Reup]

C# is a language developed by Microsoft to be used specificially with the .NET framework. It's similar in structure to Java (it's strictly Object Oriented). Both Java and C# resemble C/C++ in syntax.

[Abi79]

I see now. Thanks for telling me! :)

[El Quia]

Well, I use Java (SE and ME), and I used to know quite a bit of basic on my old MSX, but that was a really long time ago and I forgot almost everything of it.

Also, I'm interested in Python: I had to tweak a bit of Python code at work, and I have found it very interesting and nice.

I didn't like reading Perl at all, but I don't know if it sucks or not, he. Besides, I really hate discussions about which programming language is better than other: it simply boils down to each one own taste and programming style, in my opinion.

Also, I'm trying to get myself to learn other languages, but I am a bit lazy, lately :o...

[spif2001]

I learned Java and a little C++ and Turbo Pascal when I studied, but in my working life I have always used C#.

Right now I'm trying to rediscover my Pascal skills since I'm making custom installers using InnoSetup.

[A12Alex]

xhtml, css, php and vb

I had to learn vb in school :( (I'm trying to stick with the web design languages theme lol...)

[AlumiuN]

Let's see... QBasic, C++, XHTML, CSS, a little ActionScript, some Haskell, a very small amount of Python, a bit of VBasic, and some Jade. Phew.

[Raithlin]

English. :nuts:

Seriously, I use VB.Net/C# on a daily basis, also used Pascal/C++/Java in the past. My study modules for next year require that I learn Assembly. Should be interesting. :confused:

[jg007]

I use Assembly, C, C++ and Java.
I've also done a bit of Basic, Python and Perl.
:w00t:

I am lazy, mostly I just stick to VB .net although I do occaionally conver c to vb .net if it is simple to do

[Freyja]

I'm a n00b :whistling:
I'm learning python and will start C# in January.

[SlowCoder]

Currently I'm fluent in most of the BASIC varieties: BASIC, QB, VB, VB.Net, and ASP
But lately I'm teaching myself C, Java, and PHP.

I'm trying to break away from proprietary languages, as I prefer to be cross-platform capable. :)

[gamers2k]

Java. :D
I've picked up a smattering of PHP as well, and I had to do a programming test in C++(which I had no experience myself.However I had VS2005 installed for ASP.net, C++ was similar in syntax to Java, and I had google so I was kinda lucky :thumbs:)

[Sebatianos]

Currently I'm fluent in most of the BASIC varieties: BASIC, QB, VB, VB.Net, and ASP
But lately I'm teaching myself C, Java, and PHP.

I'm trying to break away from proprietary languages, as I prefer to be cross-platform capable. :)
Oi... You've missed Simon's Basic... that's the most advanced I got... Pascal and Simon's Basic back in the C64 days :)

[SlowCoder]

Oi... You've missed Simon's Basic... that's the most advanced I got... Pascal and Simon's Basic back in the C64 days :)
Don't get me all nostalgic, else dosraider will be all over my butte! :bleh:

[sgtboat]

english, german and a little Italian are the languages I use now.:whistling:
Also fortran, MLX, Basic and pascal were the last languages I programmed with.:thumbs:

[sofl]

c, c++, c sharp, turbo pascal, delphi, php, visual foxpro

[jg007]

as an update I have been trying to do more in C# recently than VB as it seems a more serious langauge :) . only anoying thing is acidentally deleting one of the stupid } things and then spending ages trying to work out where it needs to be !

[gamers2k]

Quick tip, when you put a open curly brace, immediately close it, then start writing your function/class in the braces. Less chance for error.

And are you using any IDE? Most should have auto-format and syntax highlighting, making it easier to spot the error.

[jg007]

I am using visual studio 2008, I don't have probs when writing the code it is later on when I try to remove bits of code and acidentally take out a '{' and don't realise then try to put it back but put it in the wrong place <:)

[El Quia]

I am using visual studio 2008, I don't have probs when writing the code it is later on when I try to remove bits of code and acidentally take out a '{' and don't realise then try to put it back but put it in the wrong place <:)

For that motive, I usually coment instead of deleting them and once I am sure that bit of code is working ok in spite of my tampering, I delete them.

(I hope that the meaning of what I'm trying to say is clear, at this time I'm not thinking clearly :))

[The_Lemming]

I use BASIC, English, and will soon be learning Chinese.

[Batmanifestdestiny]

I know some BASIC, I'm learning C++, and I once tried to learn FORTRAN. I also know French, English, and a little Japanese ;) I also am in the L O LCODE community.

[Zaru]

I've been learning Java in the university and know it quite well. Also, they familiarized us with C++ although they've never focused to much attention on it, treating the Java as the primary language. Basic is also not unknown to me as I started to write programs in it when I was a kid (C64), then moved to QBasic and finally VB.
Lastly, because I'm currently in need of learning the Python language, I think I'm gonna meet with the snake quite soon. I heard it's quite easy to learn (and so I hope).
My language knowledge will stop at that time for I'm no programmer and need not to know more of them.

[AlumiuN]

Lastly, because I'm currently in need of learning the Python language, I think I'm gonna meet with the snake quite soon. I heard it's quite easy to learn (and so I hope).


Imagine C++ that must be set out in a particular form (which makes it easy to read), but doesn't worry about incredibly annoying typecasting and is a script language. It is quite easy. :)

[cjk1995]

C, C++, Visual Basic, Java ...

[Kugerfang]

PRINT "I know really basic BASIC"
---
<center><h2>And some HTML as well</h2></center>

[_r.u.s.s.]

<center>


deprecated element

[Kugerfang]

What? It works when I save it as a .htm file.

[_r.u.s.s.]

http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/elements-deprecated

[AlumiuN]

:laugh: :owned:

[Kugerfang]

Hell, it works as part of an htm file, so I don't give a crap if it's deprecated or not.

[_r.u.s.s.]

officialy the tag is dead, it works because of backwards compatibility and it's a good will of browsers

people like you retardize the web developing process

[Kugerfang]

Yeah, the tag is dead, but since I don't take HTML seriously (just a hobby), I really don't care.

[_r.u.s.s.]

well it's different when you make sites a bit more seriously

[Danny252]

Or don't want your website to mess up when the next browser version comes out ;)

As for me:
Java, HTML, PHP, odd bit of C#.net, and some QBasic once.

[Simoneer]

vB code.


Baziiiiiiing!

[A12Alex]

people like you retardize the web developing process

That's a bit mean really. If it's not used on any other place other than localhost who cares?

[_r.u.s.s.]

well it's different when you make sites a bit more seriously

_

[Kugerfang]

http://www.vulomedia.com/images/83472Screenshotken5500desktop.jpg

[Patrunjelu]

I love developing applications under Visual Studio. I "speak" Basic, C#, C++ and Pascal as well.

[Japo]

D (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/overview.html)

[ComboTroop]

I use some LUA Scripting in a 3D free Lego typed game called Roblox!
(Yeah if you want, a bit childish) However LUA can be very complex, and very flexible and its a easy language to learn to use! From simple scripting to certain game coding, Games like Worms: Forts under siege and Garry's Mod even usilitze LUA!!!

[Kyle_the_wizard]

C/C++, Java, Jsp, html, php, pascal, ((()(Lisp)(()))) LOL

[El Quia]

((()(Lisp)(()))) LOL

http://xkcd.com/297/

:D

[Kyle_the_wizard]

http://xkcd.com/297/

:D

Lisp Knight? XD

[Maxor127]

I dabble in HTML and I pick up CSS when I can. I read the sitepoint link. I'm surprised <u> is deprecated. I still use that one along with <b> and <i> since it's a lot easier and quicker than typing it in CSS (I do everything in Notepad or plain text). I try to follow XHTML guidelines when I can, though.

[bluestarultor]

For general purposes: HTML/CSS/XML, JavaScript, PHP, Java, C#, C# ASP.NET, and, if I have a gun to my head, Visual Basic. (I HATE VB!)

For purposes of making games:
Things I've seriously considered: C#, Java, VB (my first year of programming courses, when it was all I knew)
Things I've looked into, but decided against: Blender, Adventure Game Studio

Right now, I'm debating the merits of C# and Java, because while I like having RAD with C#, Java is cross-platform, so it's really going to come down to a few factors:

ease of taking it online
resource usage
performance
ability to keep my resources safe


I'm still in the process of researching these.