Debate Match [Archive]

Tulac

10-12-2005, 03:24 PM

Democracy should forsake some of it's democratic liberties, because it is only natural to expect that people will trust those that they have voted for, especially in critical situations...
Of course the leader should know where to draw the line of him misusing his authorities...
(anyways I'll have to think it over more)

Sebatianos

10-12-2005, 03:45 PM

Did the two of you even agree on that subject and the terms? And who's the judge going to be?

Also I suggest you first define what you understand under the words:
democracy - if a political system then what country should be the model for it? If a non existing system what should it be?
democratic liberties - what are those (Do KKK anti-racial-equality marches count as a liberty? Is provoking somebody a liberty - if not huring that person directly?)
security - What is that? Being safe from earthquakes or being safe while hiding in the closet in your tightly secured safe... Or maybe just being able to afford a dozen bodyguards...

So? Are you really ready to begin?

Tulac

10-12-2005, 04:06 PM

TheChosen isn't online now obviously, I agree to this topic, and judge can apply(who wants to be one of course)...

moogle

10-12-2005, 04:15 PM

Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!

Havell

10-12-2005, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by efthimios@Dec 10 2005, 04:17 PM
Didn't one of the founding fathers (USA) said that any democracy that does that deserves neither security nor freedom?
That was Ben Franklin, and the quote is:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

(according to Wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin), anyway)

BeefontheBone

10-12-2005, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by moogle@Dec 10 2005, 06:15 PM
Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!
He smells of elderberries, surely? Incidentally, that was off-topic, and your signature is ridiculously massive.

@efthemios - you've been playing Civ 4, that quote (or a slightly different wording) is used in the game for, erm, Democracy or something.

My probelm with the issue is not so much the relaxing of liberties to gain security, it's the HUGE degree to which liberties are eroded for the tiniest increase in ILLUSORY security. I'll take my chances, thanks, if it means I don't have to see millions of pounds' worth of taxpayers' money, plus some of my own, wasted on a piece of plastic I have to carry round so everyone and his mother can gather information about me under the pretense of protecting me from terrorists. Please.

moogle

10-12-2005, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by BeefontheBone+Dec 10 2005, 07:16 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeefontheBone @ Dec 10 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-moogle@Dec 10 2005, 06:15 PM
Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!
He smells of elderberries, surely? Incidentally, that was off-topic, and your signature is ridiculously massive.

[/b][/quote]
Yes, it was off topic, and I'm keeping the sig until a mod yells at me, bwahah, such a rebelious moogle...

efthimios

10-12-2005, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by BeefontheBone+Dec 10 2005, 08:16 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeefontheBone @ Dec 10 2005, 08:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-moogle@Dec 10 2005, 06:15 PM
Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!
He smells of elderberries, surely? Incidentally, that was off-topic, and your signature is ridiculously massive.

@efthemios - you've been playing Civ 4, that quote (or a slightly different wording) is used in the game for, erm, Democracy or something.

My probelm with the issue is not so much the relaxing of liberties to gain security, it's the HUGE degree to which liberties are eroded for the tiniest increase in ILLUSORY security. I'll take my chances, thanks, if it means I don't have to see millions of pounds' worth of taxpayers' money, plus some of my own, wasted on a piece of plastic I have to carry round so everyone and his mother can gather information about me under the pretense of protecting me from terrorists. Please. [/b][/quote]
No I am not playing Civ 4. I don't even have the game.

allyfaucet

10-12-2005, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Stroggy@Dec 10 2005, 03:59 PM
Subject: Should a democracy forsake some of its democratic liberties to its people for the sake of security?
That is SO Thomas Hobbes :P

I'm ready to watch! er....read!! :D

Havell

11-12-2005, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by moogle+Dec 10 2005, 11:16 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moogle @ Dec 10 2005, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by BeefontheBone@Dec 10 2005, 07:16 PM
******QuoteBegin-moogle@Dec 10 2005, 06:15 PM
Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!
He smells of elderberries, surely? Incidentally, that was off-topic, and your signature is ridiculously massive.

Yes, it was off topic, and I'm keeping the sig until a mod yells at me, bwahah, such a rebelious moogle... [/b][/quote]
GET A SMALLER SIGNATURE!!!

Enough?

BeefontheBone

11-12-2005, 12:38 AM

Erm, isn't yours several lines of text over, too? (Still off, topic, incidentally).

n1nj4s0ur

11-12-2005, 12:39 AM

PEEPEE

Havell

11-12-2005, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by BeefontheBone@Dec 11 2005, 01:38 AM
Erm, isn't yours several lines of text over, too? (Still off, topic, incidentally).
Casual hypocrisy is the best perk a mod gets.

Kearnsy

11-12-2005, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by n1nj4s0ur@Dec 11 2005, 01:39 AM
PEEPEE
Ha! Well, your screwed now Tulac you cant argue with a point like that!

Tulac

11-12-2005, 11:12 AM

Thanks for spamming this up guys, good job! :ok:
Mods can close it...

Havell

11-12-2005, 12:15 PM

Nah, no need for a close.

Just a warning that I'm going to draw a line, past that line the only posts allowed are debate points by Tulac and The Chosen on Stroggy's issue and any RELAVENT and USEFUL comments or pint from the floor (ie, other people, anyone breaking these rules will be expelled from the deabte (ie, told to go away on pain of something horrible that I haven't thought of yet).

I'll chair the debate if you like. I've been I my school's debating club for about two years.

Anyway, this is the line:

________________________________________

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 01:22 PM

Can we choose another subject? I cant be against the liberty!

Tulac

11-12-2005, 01:28 PM

No you're for the liberty and I'm against(although not really), but the point of debating is to defend the stance even if you don't agree with it...

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 01:42 PM

I see.....

Originally posted by Tulac@Dec 10 2005, 04:24 PM
Democracy should forsake some of it's democratic liberties, because it is only natural to expect that people will trust those that they have voted for, especially in critical situations...
Of course the leader should know where to draw the line of him misusing his authorities...

No! Democracy is about liberty and freedom. People need liberties. We cant give whole power to the corrupted goverment!

Tulac

11-12-2005, 01:43 PM

Well why do you elect government if it is corrupted?

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 01:46 PM

Because people dont have noticed the corrupted goverment.

Tulac

11-12-2005, 02:24 PM

What if there are major riots, and mayhem would you still allow people to be out during the night? Or would you try to preventing it with a police watch?
If the government is corrupt then all the civic liberties are useless anyway, beacuse they will be ruined, and in democracy(and we are talking about democracy not about dictatorship) corrupt governments don't last long...
The point of the democracy is for people to choose someone they can trust, someone to whom they are willing to give power, they sure should be able to tell if they're courrupted or not...

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 02:34 PM

People become corrupted after they have been chosen and when they noticed the powers that they have.

Corrupted goverments dont last long? Just look at the America!

And for the riot: People have freedom to do everything they want.

Tulac

11-12-2005, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by TheChosen@Dec 11 2005, 05:34 PM
And for the riot: People have freedom to do everything they want.
Oh so you have freedom to kill your next door neighbour becasue he looked at you the wrong way? You have the right to burn your neighbours car, because your not happy with your paycheck? I don't think so...

And about America, hmm OK their government is corrupted you say... How have they become the worlds leading power? Through inner stability, that is one of the most important things in democracy...

(edited a typo)

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 03:01 PM

They have freedom to do anything they want, but theyre resbonsible....

America grew strong because of money and people´s fear against the goverment.

Tulac

11-12-2005, 04:35 PM

Oh yes riots in France were a true evidence of citizens responisibility, you wouldn't believe how many people act unresponsible, how many thieves and thugs are among us...

America grew strong because of money? OK so money didn't exist before America? They invented it? :blink:

omg

11-12-2005, 04:39 PM

america grew strong becuse the bankrupted the british empire during world war two.....

blastradius14

11-12-2005, 05:02 PM

Hah, not necessarily omg. The problem is that you guys ran out of cash on your own, then we gave you support and wanted to get paid back >.< Of course, by the time we went over there to kick german behind they were runnin out of oil because they hadn't taken the supply from the Soviets... This they needed for Diesel fuel, because EVERYTHING they had they ran on diesel fuel, except the planes of course. They couldn't stand up to our blind tactic of charge forward with too many numbers to stop.

We had made ourselves a world power through the joke of a war, the Spanish American war. One of are ships was bombed in the Havana port, so we occupied cuba like they(spain) had for so long. Problem is, it was probably the US that planted the bomb rofl. The world was astounded by teddy's own appearance in the war, charging around and making his horse fart.(He kicked it pretty hard :( ) As well as our shiny new ships, bigger and badder and with more guns than thought possible :tai:

Geez the chosen, Tulac is beating you pretty good in this debate. Have you even got out of high school yet?

omg

11-12-2005, 05:11 PM

rather than help out , just sit back wait for us to bankrupt ourselfs then join in at the last minute. then years later try to rewrite history througth the medium of hollywood. hoorah for america ....

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 05:15 PM

Of course not. But trought the years America has grown more and more powerful. And power is money.

Everyone knows that America is richer, bigger, powerful...etc. than rest of the world.

Tulac

11-12-2005, 05:30 PM

Look people sometimes just need an iron fist to sort themselves out, especially durin economic crisis, do you think people think of their civic liberties when they don't have anything to eat? I dont' think so...
Just look at Hitler, he was evil and made gigantic crimes against humanity, but he was able to get Germans back on their feet again, and he was elected democratically...

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 05:35 PM

Ummm...i dont know how to respond..

Oh hell! I give up!

Tulac

11-12-2005, 05:39 PM

Yay!

Well how about another round of debates with teams and a moderator(not the forum one, but a debate one)...

TheChosen

11-12-2005, 05:43 PM

Okay! :D

Tulac

11-12-2005, 05:52 PM

Any volunteers? Like people who posted something in this topic?(except Moogle and that ninja-something guy)

omg

11-12-2005, 05:58 PM

i think you should debate on which cheese is the most aromatic

Tulac

11-12-2005, 05:59 PM

Oh or when I see post like the one above me, it's better to close...

omg

11-12-2005, 06:01 PM

haha. ok

true communism versus capitolism which is better ..

or is that like waay to serios? like could just say socialism versus capatolism
like do i hafta choose who takes for and against?

of course if you dont want to debate politics then maybe dairy products is the way