A Guide To Abandonware Overall

[punch999]

The Guide To Abandonware
Abandonia.com


Contents
1. Definition of Abandonware
2. Is Abandonware Legal?
3. Abandonware Vs. Oldwarez
4. Distinguish Abandonware from Oldwarez
5. The ESA
6. The functions of Dosbox
7. Where Can I get Abandonware?
8. Credits



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1. What is the definition of Abandonware?

According to wikipedia.com…

"Abandonware is computer software which is no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder.
Alternatively, the term is also used for software which is still available, but on which further
support and development has been deliberately discontinued.
Sometimes, it is used as a blanket category for any software over a certain age, usually five years.
The term has no legal meaning. This means that labeling any kind of software 'abandonware' does not make it legal to distribute it.
Unless put in the public domain, any and all abandonware remains covered under copyright law."



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2. Is Abandonware Legal?

Abandonware, is in fact, not legal. We define it as “illegal” but the reality floats somewhere in-between. Abandonware attempts to keep the spirit of classics, without defiling the current state of the gaming nation. The core is aging games. We find those that are no longer essentially supported by the creators, and give them a home. Abandonware is mainly a repertoire of video games collected from companies that no longer seem to be sold, supported, or protected by the ESA (See “The ESA”.)

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3. Abandonware Vs. Oldwarez

There is essentially little difference between Abandonware and Oldwarez. The main being that Oldwarez sites are known to be less strict on the selection of games. When it comes to pure terminology Oldwarez is the state of a game, being abandoned or not, those that are abandoned, are placed in the grouping of Oldwarez.
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4. Distinguish Abandonware from Oldwarez

How will you know? The easiest way to find out is whether the game is still being sold. This can easily be told by places such as Amazon, or CD Access. Another method is primarily Moby Games, a excellent gaming search engine that has a massive database of various games. You can also distinguish the two by certain companies. Many that have gone under, no longer support their games, and the rights are not protected by ESA. If you are absolutely sure a game fits into one of these categories, it’s pretty safe to assume it’s state.

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5. The ESA

The ESA is a hard-working company that holds certain rights to certain software. The ESA is usually requested by specific game companies to hold their rights, so it may not be sold or distributed. Abandonware is one of the ESA’s primary targets. This is more so to keep the sites clean of anything that shouldn’t be there. This keeps Abandonware somewhat legal, without distributing copyrighted and protected games across the internet.

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6. Functions of Dosbox

Dosbox is a essential program to reliving your older memories on the PC. Modern computers cannot support older games, due to compatibility problems. Dosbox emulates a DOS environment on your computer, enabling you to enjoy games that are ordinarily incompatible with your PC.

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7. Where can I get Abandonware?

Abandonia (Abandonia.com) is our pride and joy, and for a good reason. One of the cleanest, fair, and persistently updated abandon ware sites, you can most likely find what you like. There are many Abandonware and your best bet is to simply search, be it links from one site to another, or a Abandonware ring.

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8. Credits

Writing: Alex Veley - AKA Punch999
Abandonia Creator : Kosta
WIKIPEDIA : Abandonware Definition
Revision : Pierre Theron - AKA Blood-Pigggy
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I Alex Veley allow all who wish to edit this document can do so as long as they leave most of it intact. They may also put there name down as a reviser in the credits.


Signed.

[A. J. Raffles]

Would you kill me if I were to pick on your spelling, Punch?

[punch999]

Sure If you wish to revise it please do.

[Blood-Pigggy]

If you don't mind, I could probably take this and touch it up with a writer's flair.
If you don't mind that is, if you like it you can replace it with mine. :D

[punch999]

As long as you keep the core of it

[Blood-Pigggy]

Of course, of course...
Don't worry. :bleh:

[punch999]

Good then go ahead with it

[punch999]

Thanks for the revision bloody

[Blood-Pigggy]

Your welcome.
It isn't a work of art, but it's clear and explanatory.

[punch999]

Its a far cry from the crap it was

1200 post!

[win98]

wow punch i did not know that i am impressed

[Sebatianos]

Well this may all be old and known, but it proves that Blood-Piggy and Punch999 are really trying to get the updater position. :ok:

[punch999]

Actually I have been working on this forever I just restarted working on it and starting the topic today

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally posted by Sebatianos@Sep 27 2005, 02:32 AM
Well this may all be old and known, but it proves that Blood-Piggy and Punch999 are really trying to get the updater position. :ok:
What? I just wanted to write.
I'm addicted to writing, I crumple it up, shove it in a needle, then inject it into my blood stream... mmm...

[punch999]

I wonder if it needs a Teh ESA 4re teh stupd section

To answer when people say stuff anti esa like

[plix]

Sorry to bump this topic, but I'm not a frequent visitor around here and I thought some issues with this needed to be addressed.

First of all, the Wikipedia definition of Abandonware is somewhat flawed, and that article on the whole is a complete mess.

Secondly, abandonware is not legal. Period. Unless you live in a country that isn't a Berne Convention Signatory it's illegal where you live, too.

Thirdly, oldwarez is easy to distinguish: it's "old" games which are still being sold.

A FAQ I wrote with a few others (http://awnu.org/faq/scene/pages/index.html) some years ago is a good jumping-off point for a document such as this. That FAQ traces it's roots back to the original Abandonware FAQ and is far more authoritative than Wikipedia. I like Abandonia a lot, and I think it's great that it has such a vibrant community, but Abandonware is not a new idea and I've noticed some major confusion about it over here from a few different people recently.

[Blood-Pigggy]

We never said it was legal. :bleh:

[A. J. Raffles]

I think he was referring to the somewhat woolly phrasing of
Abandonware, is in fact, not legal. We define it as “illegal” but the reality floats somewhere in-between.

[caseman]

legal whats legal? if my lawyer says its illegal, i get a different lawyer!! or i make my actions acceptable by writing an article on various games or emulators or do research for a paper or book... that is cya...cover your arse. we are in a grey area that is not very actionable by copyright holders, unlike the p2p music downloads. tough to prosecute on grounds that you may have had original but it is lost or stolen or sold it ,and forgot to erase the download etc etc. with 3 lawyers in the fam its easy to see all the loopholes in the law. just wondering which countries not covered by berne convention?......... i know, way off topic....... guide good.

[A. J. Raffles]

legal whats legal? if my lawyer says its illegal, i get a different lawyer!!* or i make my actions acceptable by writing an article on various games or emulators or do research for a paper or book... that is cya...cover your arse. we are in a grey area that is not very actionable by copyright holders, unlike the p2p music downloads. tough to prosecute on grounds that you may have had original but it is lost or stolen or sold it ,and forgot to erase the download etc etc. with 3 lawyers in the fam its easy to see all the loopholes in the law. just wondering which countries not covered by berne convention?......... i know, way off topic.......* guide good.

That's the wrong sort of attitude, I'm afraid. It's not a lawyer who says it's illegal, it's copyright law. So are you going to get yourself a different law, then? And just because something's not actionable or rarely enforced, that does NOT make it legal.

[plix]

Originally posted by caseman@Nov 1 2005, 07:30 AM
we are in a grey area that is not very actionable by copyright holders, unlike the p2p music downloads.
...
just wondering which countries not covered by berne convention?......... i know, way off topic....... guide good.
No, it's not a legal grey area at all, it's an ethical grey area. The law is very clear on the points covered and it's illegal.

A list of signatories can be found in the Wikipedia article on the issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_an d_Artistic_Works). In short: damn near every country on the planet.

[plix]

Originally posted by caseman
we are in a grey area that is not very actionable by copyright holders, unlike the p2p music downloads. tough to prosecute on grounds that you may have had original but it is lost or stolen or sold it ,and forgot to erase the download etc etc.
Since I just read over your post again I thought I should note some specifics: Sale of a game constitutes a transfer of license, which strips you of entitlement to play said game.
Losing (due to theft or otherwise) does not entitle you to obtain an illegal copy of said game as this method of obtainment is not covered by the "legal backup" provision. In this case if you have not already properly backed up your copy you are out of luck.This is exactly like "p2p music downloads" and it is exactly the reason that I raised this issue in the first place. The points you raised are not loopholes in the law, they're misinterpretations of the law. I suggest you ask one of the lawyer family members you mentioned (assuming that one of them is an IP lawyer) and you'll discover that they'll agree with what I've said.

[punch999]

Maybe you should correct the problems with it not bash it

[plix]

Originally posted by punch999@Nov 2 2005, 01:43 PM
Maybe you should correct the problems with it not bash it
I didn't bash your guide, I made specific comments about specific problems and (albeit briefly) offered clarifications. I also pointed you in the direction of a much more complete and accurate "guide" in my first response.

So now that I've offered very specific comments and provided a link to far more information you want me to rewrite it, too?

[Timpsi]

Originally posted by punch999
Maybe you should correct the problems with it not bash it

Er.. what he did was to point you a few errors in a clear and articulate way. No bashing of any kind was involved. He is right with his statements, too.

I'd like to recommend adding links to the Oldwarez List of the main page, and to the online store list. Should work much better than telling people to "check for example from CDaccess and Amazon".

EDIT: Quote added.

[punch999]

You can edit my work if you want there is no law it is open source

[plix]

Originally posted by punch999@Nov 3 2005, 06:37 PM
You can edit my work if you want there is no law it is open source
Well, aside from the fact that it's documentation (not code) means that it's already "open source" (as in speech, not as in beer). I've given you what essentially amount to patches which aren't especially difficult to apply and which you have elected not to.

Secondly, you haven't presented any form of license for the material (such as the GFDL), so I have no idea what your usage of "open source" is supposed to mean. You haven't released it into the public domain so far as I can tell, so that means that you still retain copyright. Therefore I'm not exactly sure how this document is licensed.

Finally, "open source" does not imply that you don't have to do anything. In the most immediate sense, I don't control the content of the original post, so I can't just "change it myself." Is it really so much to ask that you alter a few things yourself given that I did all the research and offered you the relevant changes?

The truth of the matter is, I've already written a much larger, more well-written and researched "guide" and I was doing you what I thought was a service by offering constructive criticisms based upon my own research. It would be a lot easier if you'd just said "thanks, but no thanks" if you have no intention of taking these suggestions into account rather than making these vague, fallacious remarks about the how your guide is "open source" and therefore the responsibility of maintenance falls upon others.

[Blood-Pigggy]

That's a strange mark of taking human speech then dissecting it to the point where you find it offensive and misplaced.

Punch was only saying that anyone can take what he made and they can edit it, nothing more, you don't have to take so many things into it, and perhaps be a little less rude next time.

[A. J. Raffles]

Well, but Plix does have a point that Punch's guide as it stands is far from complete - and Punch himself said it was work in progress, didn't he? Or has he abandoned the project in the meantime? And Plix's initial criticism was valid, to the point and in no way disrespectful of Punch's work, just pointing out its flaws, so I can't see what all this fuss is about, really...

[Blood-Pigggy]

No Raffles, in the post just above yours, he sounded extremely offended, and for some reason his remarks were somewhat rude.

I'm talking about his general attitude in the afore-mentioned post, you should've realized that yourself, nothing about his previous comments or his efforts to amend Punch.

[Fruit Pie Jones]

Well, aside from the fact that it's documentation (not code) means that it's already "open source" (as in speech, not as in beer).
What in the world is open-source beer?

[Blood-Pigggy]

Everyone puts in their favorite beer, and everyone drinks it.
Imagine a large tub, like a pot-luck dinner, but with beer!

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Nov 3 2005, 09:22 PM
No Raffles, in the post just above yours, he sounded extremely offended, and for some reason his remarks were somewhat rude.

I'm talking about his general attitude in the afore-mentioned post, you should've realized that yourself, nothing about his previous comments or his efforts to amend Punch.
As far as I can see it, he was simply responding to Punch's reaction to his initial post. It may sound slightly condescending (well, OK, it is), but it's understandable: he took his time to make those suggestions for improving this guide and all he got in return was basically a "yeah, whatever, go on and change it; I won't stop you". In a sense that's just as rude.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Punch accepted his comment, then gave him the oppertunity to change the article, even though his comment might sound a bit rude, it didn't deserve a retort like that.

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Nov 3 2005, 09:43 PM
Punch accepted his comment, then gave him the oppertunity to change the article, even though his comment might sound a bit rude, it didn't deserve a retort like that.
He gave him the opportunity to change the article? Fine, but why would Plix have to make the changes? The credits clearly say "Writing: Alex Veley - AKA Punch999", which means that Punch is credited with writing it (and rightly so, since it probably took some time to write) - but that also means he is responsible for what's in it.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Listen A.J. , this isn't technical, this is just human decency, as far as I can tell, his comment was uncalled for and that's all that I ever meant.

[A. J. Raffles]

Fair enough. I was just trying to explain why he might have been slightly upset at Punch's comment. Personally, I could care less about this guide, really.

[Blood-Pigggy]

I couldn't care less either.
But I like to debate, so excuse my poor behavoir, :bleh:

[punch999]

LOOk i added this to the writing do as you please and post the new version in your own little post. And I will update the main part

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Alex Veley allow all who wish to edit this document can do so as long as they leave most of it intact. They may also put there name down as a reviser in the credits.


Signed.

[Blood-Pigggy]

You got bad hand-writing Punch, :bleh:

[punch999]

Paint aint the greatest for signatures

[plix]

Originally posted by Fruit Pie Jones@Nov 3 2005, 09:28 PM
Well, aside from the fact that it's documentation (not code) means that it's already "open source" (as in speech, not as in beer).
What in the world is open-source beer?
Nothing to do with "open source beer," it has to do with the ambiguity of the word "free" (and is a common clarification to the usage of the phrase "free software"). "Free as in beer" means that the software has no cost, i.e. gratis. "Free as in speech" means that the source code is open to be viewed by all, but is not necessarily "free as in beer." Another important distinction is that "free as in speech" doesn't imply "free as in beer" and vise-versa.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Blood-Pigggy")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Listen A.J. , this isn't technical, this is just human decency, as far as I can tell, his comment was uncalled for and that's all that I ever meant.[/b][/quote]
I'll admit my tone wasn't polite, but I'd hardly call the comment uncalled for. The comment in question wasn't even inflammatory. I was irritated that my suggestions were met with indifference -- if not complete disregard -- and I expressed that irritation. I fail to see how expressing that makes my comment somehow inflammatory, uncalled-for, or unfair.

Originally posted by punch999
LOOk i added this to the writing do as you please and post the new version in your own little post. And I will update the main part
My contention all along has been that you making the alterations in your original post would reduce redundancy and confusion in the thread. If every modification requires reposting the entire guide in a new post the entire thread is going to very rapidly become quite a mess.

Secondly, I'd rather not make the modifications to the document myself unless you're pretty lax about the "don't make big changes" note. I personally have no interest in creating my own version of the guide, so my changes are solely for the benefit of you guys and I don't want to make these changes myself unless I know that they're not going to be for naught.

[punch999]

Then dont complain if you wont do something yourself about it!

[Blood-Pigggy]

How about you just lay this to rest?
This is a senseless argument, everyone has made their point, almost no one agrees, and no one is going to get anywhere.

Just calm yourselves down, there's no need for this.

[plix]

Originally posted by punch999@Nov 4 2005, 12:32 AM
Then dont complain if you wont do something yourself about it!
Are you kidding me?

I already did a good bit of work doing the initial research (albeit I did the research for myself and my own guide long before Abandonia even existed). That in-and-of itself is taking initiative, it's you that is unwilling to do any work whatsoever. I even went so far as to offer rewriting the entire damn thing so long as I was assured that it wouldn't be rejected because the changes were judged to affect too much change.

My initial intent was to help improve the accuracy and usefulness of your guide. What the response thus far has been is little more than tell me to do the entire thing myself and to do so only under a restrictive set of conditions with which I'm doubtful of in the first place.

And I'm the one being called rude!

[Doubler]

Well, I for one thank you for your input plix :ok:
Personally I believe there's been a somewhat exagerated response to your postings, and that this has been dragging on long enough.

Hell, I'll rewrite the bloody thing myself once I find the time.
*Writes note in agenda*

[Flop]

Well, I have to say that I agree with Plix. Some people on this site seem to think that because we do what we're told by the ESA, that makes the site perfectly legitimate. Not so. Abandonware is illegal. If it was not, it would be called freeware. I especially suggest altering this phrase:

This keeps Abandonware somewhat legal, without distributing copyrighted and protected games across the internet.

All the games on this site are copyrighted. Not all of them are protected, and the copyright for most of them isn't enforced, but as Plix said that doesn't make it any more legal. I think it's only fair to be open and frank, and tell people that they may be breaking the law (however stupid that law may be), when they download games from the site. Trying to sugarcoat it just seems dishonest (not that I think any of you guys are dishonest, nor do I think you're purposefully trying to mislead anybody).

[Blood-Pigggy]

Read the posts.
This issue has been resolved, there is no more need for ellaboration, this is now just devolving into spam, just stop already, yeesh, don't drag it on.

[Flop]

Well, if the issue has been resolved (although I'm not sure how), why don't we just close the thread? It doesn't seem like there is much interest in criticism anyway.

[plix]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Nov 4 2005, 01:48 PM
This issue has been resolved, there is no more need for ellaboration, this is now just devolving into spam, just stop already...
How exactly is this delving into spam? From what I see we're having a very rational conversation. I'm not quite sure how it's been resolved, either. The posts with the least significance to this thread are the ones where you complain about everyone else.

I take the issues I've raised seriously. I've been involved in abandonware a long time, and it bothers me that you and the original author of the guide have such disregard for the significance and reality of international copyright law, the reality of the ESA (I've been dealing with them since they were the SPA), and such a poor understanding of how copyright works (for example, the complete misunderstanding of "open source").

How about you read my guide, Blood-Piggy. Then let me know what you think about this guide.

[Blood-Pigggy]

First of all, no one wants to be involved in this discussion except you, you are just re-stating your point over and over, which is a waste of space, and not only that everyone else is just simply replying to each-other's posts without much adu or sense.

In other words, there's no more reason to this, it's going nowhere, and as Flop said, this topic should be closed.

[plix]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Nov 4 2005, 07:05 PM
First of all, no one wants to be involved in this discussion except you, you are just re-stating your point over and over, which is a waste of space, and not only that everyone else is just simply replying to each-other's posts without much adu or sense.

In other words, there's no more reason to this, it's going nowhere, and as Flop said, this topic should be closed.
Except that everyone in this thread save you (and, to an uncertain degree, punch) has agreed with me and supported what I've had to say. Flop posed the same uncertainty about how this issue is resolved that I did, and my asking for clarification is reasonable.

You simply seem to either not care or just dislike me and have done nothing thus far but criticize me and attempt to derail the thread. I'm asking you to please cease from doing this unless you have something of value to add to the discussion. Let the mods decide if they want to lock the thread as you've already made your position on the issue known.

[Blood-Pigggy]

I feel indifferent about this situation since I have nothing to do with it, yet I feel that this is completely off-topic, and therefore it's abandoned it's purpose, and forth-with should be closed.

This was by no way my fault, as the discussion got out of hand, I'm not arguing against your case (infact, I would agree with it if you had presented it relevantly to me) It wandered off around the time that Punch told you to do anything with it, and when you replied to Fruit's comment on "free source beer".
Please do not accuse others of misconceptions, this topic is just now a de-railed traincrash, and there seems to be no hope of getting it back on topic, as saying "the issue was never resolved in any clarified matter" does not relate to the topic at all, since the issue in the first place had absolutly nothing to do with a guide towards Abandonware.

Therefore your discussion has absolutly no value towards the thread, as it's not related and so on and so forth it has ceased it's sole purpose of being "on topic". Which is enough reason to close this topic.

I have nothing against you or anyone, I just hate these stupid looping arguments, that destroy a thread altogether.

Now if you don't mind, I need to go remove a soda cap that has attatched itself to my tongue (ouch).
P.S. - I'll leave this topic now as to remove any further future perogatives of spamming, you can continue if you wish, but there doesn't seem to be a sensable reason to at all.

[punch999]

I have agreed with you???? :blink: :blink:

[plix]

Originally posted by punch999+****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (punch999)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I have agreed with you????[/b]
******QuoteBegin-plix
Except that everyone in this thread save you (and, to an uncertain degree, punch) has agreed with me and supported what I've had to say.[/quote]
Ugh.

[punch999]

dont make 1 word posts.

[Tulac]

Ohhh come on Punch, did you actually read the quotes?
And please stop being so tedious both Blood Piggy and Punch...

[Blood-Pigggy]

But tedium is my specialty.

[plix]

Originally posted by punch999@Nov 5 2005, 12:51 PM
dont make 1 word posts.
I'm really doing my best to be reasonable and respectful here and I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same. I'd really rather not get involved in a flamewar.

As Tulac said, read everything that I posted rather than telling me what I can and cannot do.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally posted by plix+Nov 5 2005, 12:32 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (plix @ Nov 5 2005, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-punch999@Nov 5 2005, 12:51 PM
dont make 1 word posts.
I'm really doing my best to be reasonable and respectful here and I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same. I'd really rather not get involved in a flamewar.

As Tulac said, read everything that I posted rather than telling me what I can and cannot do. [/b][/quote]
Hey, let's stop elaborating, I think Tulac said enough without you having to add on.

Can I see the guide you wrote?

[plix]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Nov 5 2005, 05:44 PM
Can I see the guide you wrote?
I linked it earlier, but since you asked:
The Abandonware FAQ (http://awnu.org/faq/scene/pages/index.html) (a full index of versions (http://awnu.org) is also available).

[TheVoid]

I think that the smartest thing to do would be to link plix's guide to the main page, if the authors grant their permission to do so.