Pc Gamer: Old Games "crap"

[Stroggy]

You may already know this, but it seems that in the last few weeks PC Gamer has been able to offend pretty much all fans of both old games and adventuregames.
At first they managed to offend pretty much the entire adventuregame community by giving the latest adventuregame The Moment of Silence an underwhelming 14%. Now this may not hurt all of us since we're not all avid adventuregamers, however I'm pretty sure most of us will be shocked by an article leaked from the PC gamer concearning abandonware and nostalgia.

In order not to hijack any links, I'll simply link to the news-page of the Wing Commander fansite where the news is posted.
Click (http://www.wcnews.com/news/shownews.php?id=2018)

As you can see the author specifically targets the games X-com 1 (the n°1 most popular game on the site) and the original Wing Commander (which is the third most popular simulation-game on our site after Sim City 2000 and transport tycoon!) and goes on to say that all old games are basically muck.

What are your thoughts on this? Are we blinded by false feelings of nostalgia, or were they and are they still excellent games no matter what their graphics are?

[PrejudiceSucks]

Is this PC Gamer UK or US?

UK actually like old games, I have no idea about US. They even had an article on UFO: Enemy Unknown

[Havell]

This is proof why PC Gamer is bollocks and we should all read PC Zone [/shameless plug]

[Stroggy]

I don't know, but by researching (actually just typing his name into google and clicking the search button) the journalist himself (Gary Whitta) I found out he writes for both the UK and US editions of PC Gamer Gary Whitta (http://garywhitta.com/biocontact.html)

[BeefontheBone]

That's the American one, and it's the opinion of one journo. The UK version would be unlikely to print something like that - they carry lots of features about older games, including their Classic Demo on the coverdiscs. In fact, this site was mentioned in there, which is why I'm here.

[punch999]

thats just dumb but hey they are intitled to their own oppinion.

[Braindead]

YEAH OLD GAMES ARE CRAP!

well for some people they are as they prefer recent games detailed good graphics, I personally don't care about graphics so much for me the important thing is game addictivenes and gameplay.

YEAH I LOVE OLD GAMES! :)

[A. J. Raffles]

Hmm, is it really all that important what one journalist - or even one journal - thinks? To tell you the truth, this is the first time I've ever heard of PC Gamer :tomato:, so I can't say I care much for their opinion...

[The Niles]

It's too bad he does not give any reason for why he thinks old games are "crap" when holding them to the light of modern gaming. If he had I could perhaps have responded with a debate but with such a none-sensicle and unsupported statement there is little to say except, I disagree.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by A. J. Raffles@Apr 24 2005, 12:09 PM
Hmm, is it really all that important what one journalist - or even one journal - thinks? To tell you the truth, this is the first time I've ever heard of PC Gamer :tomato:, so I can't say I care much for their opinion...
PC gamer is one of the most widely known PC magazines :blink:

[efthimios]

PC Lamer more likely.
There are plenty of better magazines out there. Try Computer Games, you will not read such stupid things from that one. (Or other magazines of course).

I have a feeling that PC Gamer secretely wants to become Console Gamer or something LOL.

[MV75]

Magazines? Are those still around?

I thought that broadband would have put them to the death they deserve by now...... Last one I ever bought was somewhere pre-2000.

[BlackMageJawa]

I thought that seemed a bit odd.

Here in the UK, PC Gamer had an article a month or two ago about the greatest PC gaming moments of all time. The top spot went to insult sword fighting in Secret of Monkey Island.

Sam & Max was also fairly high in the list.

PCGUK obviously still likes old games. Yay for them.

[Unknown Hero]

I tell you what - I hate games with perfect graphics! (eg. Anarchy Online - I don't like the graphics in that game.) I prefer old 'cartoonish' graphics.

[Havell]

Originally posted by BlackMageJawa@Apr 24 2005, 01:51 PM
Here in the UK, PC Gamer had an article a month or two ago about the greatest PC gaming moments of all time. The top spot went to insult sword fighting in Secret of Monkey Island.
That was PC Zone with the top 50 gaming moments.

btw, I'm a PC Zone suscriber.

[BlackMageJawa]

Oh. OK, so I got the wrong magazine.

What's PC Gamer like here then? I only ever flick through them in the supermarket on my lunch break, so I never really remember what each one is like.

[The Levitating Nun]

PC Gamer also gave a link to abandonia and that's how I came to be here so they must like old games enough to put a link to abandonware sites in their magazine.

[Tulac]

PC Gamer probably gets a huge amount of $$$ for promoting either ATi or Nvidia, and it's only only natural then, that their policy would be to ensure expenditure on theiir new products even if we don't need them, and since many of those who read these magazines are younger population, they didn't have the chance to play them...
So they spit on these games so they wouldn't even try to play, because they would find out how good they are, and would play some of them, and ofcourse lower their expenditure on the fancy videocards...

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Apr 24 2005, 12:18 PM
PC gamer is one of the most widely known PC magazines :blink:
Oops. :whistle: Well, I'm not really a "gamer", I suppose. The last time I bought a PC magazine was in 1998 because it came with a CD which had Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on it...

[Charmed]

Well, if old games are crap why are there so many people still playing them ...

If old games are crap why do sites like the-underdogs and abandonia get so much traffic ...

If old games are crap why do people like me regularly install old games to replay them ...

If old games are crap why do I regularly use my 56k modem to download files over 100mb ...

Ironic isn't it. Could it perhaps be that they are not crap ? ... Could it perhaps be that people out there enjoy the oldies just like people enjoy old movies? Could it perhaps be that people want to experiece games that they were unable to play because they were too young, or didn't have access to them ... ?

I could argue that modern games are crap (the majority anyway) using the exact opposite point - look at games nowdays, its all about flashy graphics. If you are like me, and don't happen to be a FPS zombie, graphics don't really mean much. I could argue that modern games are total crap, because you waste $40-50 dollars on a game and its only the odd rare game here and there that actually keeps you glued to the screen. I could argue that its the same old rehashed story lines being used and the same old boring gameplay. Lastly I could point out what a huge million dollar industry games are nowdays and therefore innovation and orginality are almost non-existant. Want proof look at all the developers going under after releasing something different to the norm ...

This reminds me of one of my favourite quotes.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

"X-Com: Ufo Defense may be a classic, but today it's graphics look sad," granted, but as usual its the empty vessels that make the most sounds. I could also say he used to be thin and young, but is clearly not that anymore ... now does that make him any less of a person ... Also he should please decide which side of the fence he is on before writing crap like that. On the one day, they review games and give them a crappy score saying its only graphics and games need more then graphics, then on the other day they say they game sucks because of the graphics. Make up your mind.

Besides, do we all really care what megalomaniacs think. He clearly told us how great he is.

Let me guess - Half Life is his greatest game ever made. He regularly plays Counter-Strike online and any game he reviews that doesn't look as good as the best currently is already in his bad books. Oh boy, my favourite kind of reviewers ...

[Lizard]

I hear this opinion countless times before
I ignore them :whistle:
But yes that guy should clearly decide on which side of fence he is...

[DeathDude]

Who knows, I read a lot of pc gamer, they got some good articles and such, but for the old game issue hard to say, noticed in the past few years that the more flashy a game is and the amount of hype it gets, they'll usually give it tons of praise, I'm only speaking for the U.S Mag though. Still overall I like some of the setups they do for pc gaming systems and such. I remember when they did top 50 games, a lot of oldish games were near the top of the list if I remember correctly.

[omg]

a quote from gary pitta bread stuffed with kebab meat evry night for tea. those games are my old freinds but as with many old freinds i know if we met again today would have nothing to say to each to each other
maybe u have nothing to say to your old freinds because you have spent evrey spare second of your time leveling up in mmporg's and u are the kinda ch00b that complains that u get keep getting killed by players who are of the type your char is vunarable 2, i got a coupla word for him, not that the pudgy as h*le gonna read this but, a: dont winge about dieng to pks, stay away from pk areas you lump of rotting gentalia, (mmporg player like that annoy me, if you cant pk, dont!) o wow mister mark twitter you are lvl 60! amazing .... i went out last night got mashed , engineered some sound as a favour, an had cex with my wife after, i no which i prefer :max: i play mmporgs, but i dont complain when i die i figure out why, an i dont go boasting about my stats or lvls in forums cuz its a bit silly really its what you got in real life that counts. also back to the old freinds thing, i do have things to say to my old freinds becuz i love my games but i also have a life outside of them so i always got things i bin doing to talk about to mah old freinds when i go hometown an look em up or bump into them.
wheras you are jus busy playing wow untill you die. i never wished this on anyone but i really hope a genius takes it upon them to nuke his comp or dos him to hell or back. either that or as he pk's im sure many wow clans are seeking his lvl 60 claerly choob built (i aint played wow but im guessing like a lotta games theres a purity aspect an the choobs wi impure chars get kille more often, feel free to flame me if u want but bear in mind i aint played it yet) behind, to skewer it an cook it, he clearly could keep a family going fo a week!

god that article annoyed me if classic games r poo then why are there all these sites, an o wow u got a joystick with c64 games, dude theres an amzing thing called *emulators* someone on this site once said "emulators makin the classics better than they were" which is true, an im sure one day dos box is gonna b able to handle the smoothing trick that nes an snes emmys do. i love old games, i find them to generally be better written with better conversations an story, (to me fallout 2 was the pinnacle of old style chat systems, if u no a better 1 tell me :ok: ) also it is a fact that becuz the graphics were so simple developers spent a lot more time tweaking the engines, rather than jus boosting the pixel counts, also as companys get bigger they cant afford to take risks, back in the days it seems developers were more concerned with innovating. now they are getting like the pop world an generally speaking imitaiting some1 elses hit for safe bucks. gaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL, my longest post yet...anger makes me type faster :ranting:

[Onimaru]

:yawn: i wish this is a poll so i could see if anyone in here thinks oldies are crap...... but i dont think anyone in here agrees to that writer..... and i think everyone thinks that article is the crap :ph34r:

[Charmed]

I hear this opinion countless times before I ignore them whistling.gif
But yes that guy should clearly decide on which side of fence he is...

Lizard, if you were referring to my comment with regards to modern games sucking, I was just being sarcastic. There are lots of great games still being made, no doubt, but how many more Quakes/Dooms/Half Lifes are still going to be made or have to be made.

Modern gaming is pretty much all about sequels. I mean who needs a sequel number 4, 5 ... etc. Heck who needs a number 3... I am still asking myself when Final Fantasy is going to be final and I first asked that question years ago ;p

We all know what happens when they start making more sequels or "gasp" - prequels which seems to be really popular currently. Look at Star Wars - I am even ashamed to admit the trilogy ranked among my favourite movies of all time after the jar jar binx junk. The whole story got blurred because of the mess of sequels. I mean look at the Matrix as well - The first was one of the best movies ever - then the sequels had to come in and spoil every thing.

That is 2 of my favourites spoiled now. I am pretty sure its going to be 3 after they make the next Indiana Jones movies (why ... why) Harrison Ford is an old guy now, come on don't spoil another one of my all time favourites.

I will "kill" anyone that wants to even think about making a sequel or a prequel to the Back to the Future Trilogy - don't even think about touching my all time favourite movie/series. Don't even think about it.

[omg]

i seem to be the only person in the world that like the second and third matrix movies!!

[Lizard]

Originally posted by Charmed@Apr 24 2005, 07:12 PM
I hear this opinion countless times before I ignore them whistling.gif
But yes that guy should clearly decide on which side of fence he is...

Lizard, if you were referring to my comment with regards to modern games sucking, I was just being sarcastic. There are lots of great games still being made, no doubt, but how many more Quakes/Dooms/Half Lifes are still going to be made or have to be made.

Modern gaming is pretty much all about sequels. I mean who needs a sequel number 4, 5 ... etc. Heck who needs a number 3... I am still asking myself when Final Fantasy is going to be final and I first asked that question years ago ;p

We all know what happens when they start making more sequels or "gasp" - prequels which seems to be really popular currently. Look at Star Wars - I am even ashamed to admit the trilogy ranked among my favourite movies of all time after the jar jar binx junk. The whole story got blurred because of the mess of sequels. I mean look at the Matrix as well - The first was one of the best movies ever - then the sequels had to come in and spoil every thing.

That is 2 of my favourites spoiled now. I am pretty sure its going to be 3 after they make the next Indiana Jones movies (why ... why) Harrison Ford is an old guy now, come on don't spoil another one of my all time favourites.

I will "kill" anyone that wants to even think about making a sequel or a prequel to the Back to the Future Trilogy - don't even think about touching my all time favourite movie/series. Don't even think about it.
No you missunderstood me.I was talking about Mr. Garry Whitta opinion.He say more or less the same,what say majority of my schoolmates :angry:

[PrejudiceSucks]

I'm sorry, but PC Zone is unfiltered crap compared to PC Gamer. The reviews lack real feeling and they are a 'gimmicky' magazine. Their only claim to fame is that they're PC Gamer's only real rivals.

PC Gamer has good reviews, very skilled writers and a lot about the mod scene. Abandonia and HoTU have both been mentioned at least twice in the last 6 months, you should be grateful for that.

I was actually in PC Gamer. I can't remember the exact issue number, but the Letter of the Month was a reply to Michael Gerber's scathing thoughts on PC Games involving praying for the souls of each computer game character that he killed (I'm pretty sure that it was a joke, though).

I was given an honourable mention, but my letter was on the disks in the 'Cables extended'. I was pretty pleased with that. Joseph Brereton, York, Opflashpoint100@hotmail.com, it will probably say at the bottom (I never read my own letter, but it was on there and they left my email address on by accident).

Also Gary Whitta is a total tit. I have read reviews by him and he is crap. Just say no, kids.

For the guy who was asking, PC Gamer UK is a really well written PC Games magazine, with as much life as text and paper can give it. It even had people reviewing the magazine (John Romero, Peter Meyonleux, that kind of thing), which was really cool.

[BeefontheBone]

There's a vast gulf between the US and UK magazines, the US one is a bit like PC Zone (crap reviews and gimmicky) whereas the UK one is the only gaming publication I can recall reading which is aimed at adults rather than kids/teenagers and which is, for the most part, intelligently written and mature. They're also big fans of classic games and well-respected in the industry. In short, you're better off reading the UK one!

[KingTizz]

One journo who obviously likes nice shiney things rather than something thats even slightly entertaining.

Unfortunatly it seems more and more games are being made simply to look nice. (deus ex 2 anyone?)

[DeathDude]

Yeah I can imagine that the U.K and U.S mags are different, from what I'm reading wish I could get myself a copy of the U.K one, it's unfortunate here that they only sell the U.S one, ah well maybe someday in the future...

[BeefontheBone]

You can get an idea from the website (http://www.pcgamer.co.uk) although it's a standard templatey one for the publishers so it's not a very good representation.

[DeathDude]

Yeah I know what you mean, at least I can check out some of the reviews and such though, thanks for the link BeefontheBone :ok:

[Antaeus]

I believe PC Game UK also ships overseas to some areas <.< Hard to find though. I know you can subscribe though and be overseas.

[The Fifth Horseman]

My opinion of the journalist: Jeez, what a shithead.

UFO being crap? Not in a million years! Come on, I've been playing old and outdated games on my 486 until last year when it fried itself :cry:

For me, Starcraft is a "new" game. Space Hulk is "little oldish". And it has 12 years

[BeefontheBone]

They'll ship overseas to subscribers - worth it in Europe, not sure about the cost of getting it to the US though.

[a1s]

I think you guys are wrong about the guy, while he obvioulsy is "his own biggest fan" (just look at the first completely irrelevant part of the article), the man still used to be one of us, and his article reflects not a hatred of the oldies, but the fear that they might not be what they used to be.
Indeed I've seen this opinion several times, and I share it to a limited degree- we,my friends, are crazy :tomato:. put the tomatoes down, what I say is that the games are neither good nor bad by themselves- it is our imagination that turns Monocrome games that crash every hour into masterpieces (and I'm not afraid to say my favorite game is like that). You might call it prejudice, but most of my friends will not learn to like the pre VGA oldies if I chain the to a computer, they just won't. there's a sayng I like to repeat that "if you try Bordeaux brewed in 1990, just once you will never be able to drink Arbatskoye (for 100 rubles a bottle a bottle) ever again", it might not be the case here, but it is close. and even if we will grow old on this site, our children will hardly frequent it. :cry:

[Rogue]

I used to collect PC Gamers (US edition) and same as here, some reviewers had different taste then I have, and some of the games I believed to be good, they gave low grades, while some game I believed to be trashy they gave high grade. (Just same as here we have people who prefer adventures or strategy games)

Last issue of PC Gamer I bought came with 10 classic full games including X-Com, Alone in the Dark, Wing Commander, etc.

That was the only reason I got it.

[Stroggy]

I don't agree with you, a1s, I'm a bit younger than you and most of the games on this site I've never even heard of. I got into abandonware because I wanted to play games I've never had the chance to play before (either because it was before I had a computer, or because my brother didn't want to buy the game - he was more into actiongames) so when I play an old game its rarely because of nostalgia because I've never played the game before. I can usually look past the dated graphics and bad sound (or even lack thereof) and see that a game, whatever its age, is indeed a classic!

[a1s]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Apr 25 2005, 03:08 PM
I can usually look past the dated graphics and bad sound (or even lack thereof) and see that a game, whatever its age, is indeed a classic!
those words warm my old mans hart :D
I'm actualy only 18, you know. The thruth is that I discovered the game I refered to back in about 1999, and I found it on HOTU. The funny thing is that for saying I liked old games in school, I actualy got some respect from more intellectualy developed (more than the average student) people, even though others didn't understand me. I believe that seeng low stat games as clssics is a frame of mind, and actualy having some experience from early '90s helps in it. but then again, maybe everyone can attain it if they are the right type?
BTW about the big gaming industries, there's still the open source scene- maybe we should expect new exciting ideas from there? B)

[NrmMyth]

I like all games that i like. :D
Don't care if the game is old or not.

[Omuletzu]

The thing is the abandonware scene doesn't a give a meep about what he thinks.We are all here because we LOVE oldies.So his opinion doesn't change anything...

[Galadrin]

Time to throw in my two cents...

PC Gamer has always had it's share of tools from my point of view. I remember way back when they had some guy slag a sierra release because he didn't like their new cursor control (this was for a Kings Quest or a Quest for Glory game). The fact is that they're largely gamers and maybe because of that they have strong feelings about what they like and don't like in games. Keeping that in mind, they are also a gaming magazine, and you can only review a game so many times (usually once) before people start asking why they're advertising in or buying the magazine. They have a vested interest in making sure that the newest toys are snatched up by the public, because it means more advertising dollars for them. After all, isn't that the formula for a "good" magazine? Make your readership feel insecure about what they already have so that they go out and buy that one more thing to make themselves better, repeat as needed. Look how well it has worked for womens mags.... :not_ok:

[BeefontheBone]

You have a point, but it's a bit of a cynical one - PC Gamer UK gets occasional letters about its ad content (what do half-naked women have to do with sound cards?) and they generally agree but say it's all handled by the publishers.

Also, I disagree with your signature!

[Kezz]

Well first of all, I think the thing about the old games was taken out of context. The guy who wrote that wasn't saying that old games suck, what he was explaining was how used to insane graphics, sound, and cool factor the gaming community is anymore, and also how much better games have gotten in the respect of production values. He wasn't saying old games are crap, merely that new games can make old ones LOOK like crap because they condition us to like graphics more than gameplay.

as for the adventure game... my guess is it's simply a bad game. I have never once known PC gamer to be wrong about a game, and I've been an avid reader for 4 years now. Sure, sometimes they mark things a little higher or lower than what I think, but it's usually no more than a 5 percent deviation. There is no way they would label a game that is worth anything at all as low as a 14%.

[win98]

old games are way better than new games with fancy graphics and the need for 256mb graphics cards that cos a small fortune and are updated for new games so you need to buy the same graphics card with slight improvments over and over again since a new even more demanding game you want just game out and you bought a new graphics card about a month ago for another game that you wanted
in about 20 years time it will be an old game which won't need a fancy classed graphics card to play it since new more demanding games have came out
also sorry about not having full stops i had to type this quickly because i am busy

[Eagle of Fire]

I did not read the article but it really sounds like a stupid oppinion of old games a lot of "new trend gamers" tend to have by default. That oppinion is simple: if it's not new (and full of 3D graphics) then it's utter crap. The most often heard argument to support their oppinion I heard about is "we should not leave in the past".

Such people are obviously idiots. They usually claim that the past is past and we should not bother ourselves with it, but then again how could we prevent the errors we did in the past as a human race if we would simply ignore or erase what happened before us? That's just like blindfolding ourselves and having someone on our back waving a carrot on a string in front of us so we just walk in the direction he want us to walk.

Stupid. Simply stupid. I don't think there is a better word for that.

[Galadrin]

Originally posted by BeefontheBone@Apr 26 2005, 07:45 PM
Also, I disagree with your signature!
Meh, it's a little joke (very little if you don't agree with me) that I personally find to be highly amusing. Of course, that's probably just because almost all that I associate with 80's pop culture is hair metal and bad movies with feel good endings. If it actually offends you I can always change it.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Oh God yes, I remember when they got more flamed than the beasts of Serious Sam 2 when they had all of those phone numbers for such things as 'The Castle of Kinky Sex', which is just crap.

They did these for a 5-month stint before I think they had more letters coming in about it per week then a whole issue was selling fora month (I imagine).

By the way, this 'graphics thing' that you guys keep taking about is an issue for PC Gamer UK, and they too know that good graphics do not equal a good game.

Although IMO (please don't flame me...) a good game can only be improved by having great graphics. It is not the other way around, though.

So for example, I'm going to presume that everyone here has played UFO: Enemy Unknown at least once in their lives. It is possibly my favourite game ever, but it could only be improved by it having great graphics. That's not to say that this should be at the expense of content, though.

If anyone has ever played ZAngBand Tk, they will know what I am talking about. Fine, the game looks awful, but it is more addictive than coccaine-flavoured smarties. On the other hand, with great graphics, the game would be simply astonishing.

Even that new version of Total Annihilation that I saw in this forum shows that if you take a good game and ramp the graphical quality it can make the game just 'seem' better.

[a1s]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Apr 27 2005, 02:45 AM
I did not read the article but it really sounds like a stupid oppinion of old games a lot of "new trend gamers" tend to have by default.
"no timmey you can't have that turkey, bad timmey!" (©-southpark)
man, you should always read the article in question, saying stuff based on other peoples oppinions is not smart! :not_ok:


Now about the graphics. good graphics are an improvement if everything else is the same, but usualy you can only have limited resources so good gamplay means more time, or crappier graphics. Now before you can actualy sell a game, you have to lure the buyer, think which game would you rather buy:
1)the one that says: excelent story,"game of the milisecond"-Gamers Adviser, and has cool screenshots.
2)the one that says: explore the secrets of gorrila archipelago!,"simply, greatly, ultra, y'now, cool"-Buy or Fry, and has crappy screenshots.
?
sadly enough, most of us will choose the first one, because "what you see is waht you get". You can't see the story from the cover, nor can you see the gameplay, you can only see the graphics.

[BeefontheBone]

Short development cycles, that's what it is - the game gets rushed out and it's often the story and gameplay that suffer while the graphics are pushed to be at least average in order to sell games to idiots and kids, who make up a fair chunk of the market. Witness Battle for Middle Earth - looks great, but wasn't finished before release and is full of bugs etc.

Gal, it doesn't offend me, but I happen to like The Breakfast Club and am a fan of 80s music (well, not hair metal, but synthpop rocks).

[The Fifth Horseman]

Short development cycles, that's what it is - the game gets rushed out and it's often the story and gameplay that suffer while the graphics are pushed to be at least average in order to sell games to idiots and kids, who make up a fair chunk of the market. Witness Battle for Middle Earth - looks great, but wasn't finished before release and is full of bugs etc.

Agreed. While I was chewing through Bloodrayne for example - they had a lot of options to use, lots of possibilities sleeping in their script code - and yet instead of making something _good_, they stopped on _decent_. With a minor degree of effort compared to what they already did, the game could become unique every time it was played. But no, they decided otherwise. :ranting:

But there are still fan modders like me, so not all is lost. :ok:

[DeathDude]

Yeah I agree the development cycle being sped up his really pushed a lot of games out the door fast when really some need tweaking and such, but with costs rising and publishers pushing at the developers it's sad to see. Especially when it turns out to be a straight port from a certain platform, I hate when that sort of thing happens.

[win98]

deathdude right i saw this game don't rember the name but it was out for 2 months and hardly anyone brought it because the story line was crap and the graphics were okay

[DeathDude]

I know a big issue is cost when they rush out the games, but still I hate it when I play a game and it ends up looking and running like a ps2 port, not there is anything wrong with the ps2, just sometimes I want to play a game that has been optimized for the system, maybe add a few features, make it appealing to the consumer to buy it.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by Tulac@Apr 24 2005, 02:02 PM
PC Gamer probably gets a huge amount of $$$ for promoting either ATi or Nvidia, and it's only only natural then, that their policy would be to ensure expenditure on theiir new products even if we don't need them, and since many of those who read these magazines are younger population, they didn't have the chance to play them...
So they spit on these games so they wouldn't even try to play, because they would find out how good they are, and would play some of them, and ofcourse lower their expenditure on the fancy videocards...
this is definately a part of it. why the editor allowed that one journalist to spout such a stupid opinion. they only get money from the current advertisers, so they pimp the new games and the devil can take the games that used to pay their wages.
if his opinion was true, how would he explain magazines like retro gamer? thats people paying money for stuff about old games. old games and systems sell well on ebay. more people who disagree with him.

[Sebatianos]

Well I just now looked at this thread and all I have to say is this:

Gaming magazines are sponsored by the gaming industry. The quality old games (mostly abandonware) are availabe for free - so the industry isn't making enough money. If the new generation of gamers start thinking that graphics aren't everything - they'll stop buying expensive new games - and that will harm the industry. So it doesn't matter what they really think, or what the truth is - it's all profit driven!

[DeathDude]

Yep this is a what $11 Billion dollar industry we're talking about bigger than hollywood and the music industry, profits mean everything now a days with publishers, yup it's unfortunate it's like this there is influence on this sort of thing, but until gamers act that way and start changing their opinions, it won't change.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Yes, but the next generation won't be getting anything new at all, PC game companies either release something 'Off-the-wall' that nobody buys or makes Quake 7 and sells half a million copies (Which is more money than 2/3 platinum albums).

I'm sorry, but people have got this worked out.

I'm not going to go into piracy, but if a game sells half a million copies at ?35 each then that's about 15 million quid, in Britain alone (I suppose that that's about $25 or 30mil dollars, I don't know how much the currency is worth, but it isn't that much) then any piracy is irrelivant, the company has made serious cash.

[BeefontheBone]

dollars are worth less than gbp, so ?35m is about US$50m I think.

[Microprose Veteran]

Some info from a veteran:

Gary Whitta is a long time games reviewer. He used to be on The One Magazine (for Amiga, Atari ST and PC). Never thought him a bad reviewer.

I do agree that it sounds like they just want to discourage young gamers to go looking into the old games section. That's really sad, because it means PC Gamer is not an independent medium. Then again, it's American and nothing in the States is independent - they're all profit driven.

A good games magazine would be made for and by gamers themselves. Alas, I fear those times are over.

In short: Gary Whitta has gone over to the dark side, because nobody calls UFO: Enemy Unknown bad because its graphics are not up to date.

I still have hopes for the gaming industry though. One name: SID MEIER.

Hey, my handle's not Microprose Veteran without reason... :D

PS: I bought the warbox MOHAA plus add ons. At first it was fun but ultimately it is a very limited game. I never got to playing the add on missions. And nobody ever bleeds when they get hit!

[efthimios]

HAHAHA, seriously he used to work for THE ONE? Oh man I hated that magazine! I remember having very low score for some very good games without any logic.
(Prefered ST Format and Strategy Plus on those days).

[RituroErganesti]

ST Format!!! Here I was, thinking I'd never hear the phrase "Atari ST" again unless I was looking through the attic in my Dad's house again... you guys just made my day AND week.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Microprose Veteran")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>In short: Gary Whitta has gone over to the dark side, because nobody calls UFO: Enemy Unknown bad because its graphics are not up to date.

I still have hopes for the gaming industry though. One name: SID MEIER.
[/b][/quote]

Tou and ché, MV. :ok: X-COM is my all-time favourite game -- surpassing even the likes of Deus Ex, Half-Life and Gazillionaire on my favourites list -- and it's not because of the graphics. (Actually, I thought they were fairly decent; maybe I'm just easily amused. :whistle:) It's because nothing, and I mean NOTHING, satisfies like an eight-waypoint blaster shot into a snakeman-infested gas station. (Second place: Taking on a snakeman battlecruiser with one lieutenant and surviving without saving. :sniper:)

Sid Meier can do nothing wrong. SimGolf, Railroad Tycoon, Alpha Centauri, Civilization... yes, please! :Titan:

[Omuletzu]

Actually i thought the graphics in the first two x-com titles were awesome

Oh yeah and sid meier rocks :ok:

[troop18546]

MF'ers. What do they know about good games... :whistle:

[DeathDude]

Funny just remembered this opinion is coming from the self proclaimed magazine that calls itself the best selling pc game mag in the world, whether that's true or not I'm not sure.

[racer]

Did you ever hear something about a "new world order"?. It also applies to games. This dude Gary is part of a chain envolving all of us towards buyin new games each month and new graphic cards twice a year. This magazine (all game magazines) has a lot of sponsorship coming from Nvidia and others graphics gurus, so what we can expect from such comment?
Microsoft is doing the same with Windoze and all their stuff that´s why 80% of world computers are Win based.
There´s a word that Mr. Gary doesn´t know much about. It´s called RESPECT. Please, have respect for the abandon scene, for the codies in Wing Commander, and for the people who prefer abandon software and don´t want to pay 50 dollars for a piece of c###. The abandon movement is made for people that like to enjoy this kind of software, collect it and play it to death, not for sub-cultural teens astonished by 50 billions of pixels and 10,000x8,000 resolution. But maybe abandonians are not convenient for the gamin industry...maybe we´re moving more traffic bandwitch than PC Gamer site...or than the new software companies sites, who knows...

[efthimios]

Strange, i remember when I was such a "teen" and liked those old games. Don't talk down on teens. They are right to want better looking games. It is not their fault for not having better games now. Though I strongly disagree that modern games are worse than older ones.
I don't think it is a wise course of action on accusing new games of anything, or buyers of them. Just because a pompus (sp?) behind says bad things about old games doesn't mean that "you" have to say bad things about new games.
You are no better than him if you start accusing new games of lacking content, originality, gameplay because of having more colours or whatever.

[Borodin]

PC Gamer used to be pretty good, but these days they view themselves increasingly as a mouthpiece for the industry. I don't think anybody is actually being told on staff to give starry-eyed reviews of anything new and big, but the net effect is the same if you hire gee-golly-whiz kids whose knowledge of gaming goes back as far as all of two years.

And yes, I know some of the people frequenting this forum are kids, themselves. But you're not ignoring the history of gaming; far from it. ;)

[DeathDude]

Yeah who knows in regards to PC gamer, they seem to pride themselves into being one of the few pc gaming mags that are out there, the staff has been changing and such these past few years and it's hard to keep up for me personally.

The only dude I like on the magazine stateside would have to be Greg "The Vede", he's one of my few favourite writers and such there.

[Borodin]

The magazine has gone steadily downhill. I know some people who used to work for PC Gamer and left, and they claim that they were being critcized for turning in less than extremely positive reviews of bigname titles. The bulk of people now on staff are new to the industry, with little understanding of its past--and that works well if you want to get "gee wiz, what a great game!" reviews out of folks with no gaming history to offer comparisons.

I honestly don't think most gamer websites that I've seen are any better. Remember, many are profit-based just like the printed publications. And most gamers in any case again lack the knowledge of past games that makes some critical apparatus possible in reviews.

My opinion, for what it's worth: find a critic whose work you think makes good common sense in the longterm, and stick with them. Give no loyalty to a site or printed magazine.

[PrejudiceSucks]

I assume you're talking about PC Gamer US, not UK. UK gives some very, very scathing reviews of big name games. Also, the people in UK are extremely knowledgable about games old and new.

I've never read US, but I assume that it's crapper. Maybe that's just me, but I prefer UK magazines. They're just better made, and a lot funnier.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by PrejudiceSucks@May 8 2005, 04:47 PM
I assume you're talking about PC Gamer US, not UK. UK gives some very, very scathing reviews of big name games. Also, the people in UK are extremely knowledgable about games old and new.

I've never read US, but I assume that it's crapper. Maybe that's just me, but I prefer UK magazines. They're just better made, and a lot funnier.
US magazines do seem to be worse than UK.
i remember getting a US magazine once, i forget the name, and it was seriously just page after page of screenshots. with maybe some captions.

[Borodin]

I don't think any general condemnation-by-nationality can be made. PC Gamer US used to be a fine publication. It's management changed about 3-4 years ago, and it's been going downhill since then.

[DeathDude]

Yeah I agree PC Gamer used to be a good magazine, then a lot of the reviewers and writers left the magazine, pretty much it's just Greg I can think of that still part of the original crew, but the quality keeps declining, hopefully it might improve at somepoint in the future though...

[PrejudiceSucks]

PC Gamer UK is a bit up and down. The last issue I got (a couple of days ago) was not that great, but the one before was fantastic.

I guess it's all about the calibre of the games released that month.

[Stroggy]

Yeah, the quality of the games can affect the quality of a magazine. This month was very bad since the games are very "bleh". another football manager game, a matrix game, Stronghold 2, Empire Eart 2 (after all these years they still can't make a realistic looking strategy game... why are the units so big compared to the buildings!?) and some other small games and Doom 3/HL2-clones.

[Maktaka]

Actually, I have to agree with him. Whenever I've downloaded a game from this site that I played as a kid, I've usually regretted it. The game doesn't have the same level of fun that I remember and I end up being let down. On the other hand, when I download a game from here that I've never played before, I enjoy it much more because I don't have any preconceived notions about the fun factor. I think that's where he's coming from. He got an itch to play some old games that he hadn't touched in years and was dissapointed when they didn't live up to his expectations. Although I think he took it a little too hard, I do understand where he's coming from on this. I'm just glad that I never got a chance to play X-COM as a kid, man it would suck if THAT got ruined because it couldn't live up to my memories.

[Microprose Veteran]

Nope.

I agree that many oldies aren't that good.

But X-com is just a super game I guess. I played it a lot in the 90s and I beat it at the highest difficulty level. I've tried a few times at hardest difficulty again but I guess I lost my touch because I lost my entire team several times. Conclusion: it's still as challenging as ever (untill I beat it again).

Then there are a couple of old games I still play now and then on my C=64 and Amiga emulators... :max:

[cheesegrater]

Gaming magazines are lame because they inflate review scores in order to promote games. Also games always get a score of 50% or more. Lame!

[BeefontheBone]

not in pcg they don't.

[efthimios]

And not in Computer Games, they do not.

[Borodin]

I'm personally not too concerned whether a magazine or site rates everything above 50% or not, because it's relatively easy to skew that by focusing these days on only Big Name Titles from Big Name Companies that are done with reasonable (if sometimes very dull, ie, Rise of Nations) competence.

That said, if any game magazine reviews Dungeon Lords in its 1.0 state and gives it above 65%, I would be inclined to wave my privates in its aunties' faces. ;)

[DeathDude]

I don't follow reviews as much as I used to do when buying a game, usually I'll look at it and see whether or not some of the points are pleausable, but at times they can be opinionated and that's fine, if I can I try to rent the game, (Console side of course) PC games, its harder but still I look around to many sources both magazine and online.

[Doc Adrian]

I don't really look at reviews either..but I do look at the screenshots in the mag and read a bit to figure out if it sounds appealing

[snowowl0909]

Combination of print mags like PC Gamer/Computer Gaming World plus some online reviews using Game Ranking, IGN, Gamespot, and Game-Over-Oline is best from past experience. Can't hurt to get a broad perspective.

[Anon]

Actually, I found Amazon to give very good reviews from customers. I've always considered Rome Total War, and then read about five reviews from Amazon about the major AI bug what never got updated after two patches. Likewise the possibility the expansion won't have this problem, thus more money for something they should have fixed before putting it on the market. Then hearing how they kept deleting about this error on their technical forums from customers and saying that had fixed this bug in the patches when they didn't.

Didn't hear about that big bug from any the major online computer game reviewers and magazines who gave it generally good reviews.

Something I experienced with the Demo version 2.0 of Devil Whisky, the game kept crashing so I went to the technical forum. Usual rubbish, update your drivers and adjust your video and sound settings was the reply. Well, it was the fact the game didn't crash when I didn't use the mouse and had nothing to do with the above.

However the company had stated that the demo had been upgraded 2.0 specifically to include mouse support and that it had been fixed. So I politely mentioned the mouse problem on their forums and they deleted my feedback without a reply, which was nice.

Had the same problem with Neverwinter Nights, had to rely on the players community to tell me why the toolset kept crashing not Bioware.

At least with the inferior VGA Eye Of The Beholder 2 game they advised of a major bug in the documentation and I could play the game straight through without my enjoyment being spoilt with any bugs. (I'm being sarcastic.) Can run it on XP with VDM with mouse support.

Yes, I got nostalgic with the Eye Of The Beholder series and got bored with it probably because I've played it too many times.

Bought DOOM3, completed and enjoyed the original so many times as well. No problems at all with DOOM3 regarding bugs and performance which was a shock, considering it supposed requirements I have a NVIDIA FX5700LE graphic card. However never completed it because I got bored with the playing style and therefore got deleted.

All that glitters is not gold.

[win98]

I follow net guide reviews it is a pc magazine in astralia and newzeland they are good because some game demos are on the cd-rom that comes with it every month it icludes stuff like zone alarm avg ati virus ad-awarese and spy bot search and destroy

[PrejudiceSucks]

Hehey I really like the Stronghold games.

But yes, the games were a bit 'bleh'. I am getting really pissed off with all of the 'MMO Cash-in games'.

We already have that Disney one and the Matrix one, the Star Wars one too.

What we really need is an official release of a Freelancer MMO (although playing it in groups of 32 all in Freighters is a LOT of fun).

That does not mean EVE Online before anyone starts that off. I like it, but it's not Freelancer.

PC Gamer also releases a lot of tools on the discs, but what I really don't like is the way that the Max Payne 2 mods are always quite small and cool-looking, but they cram the discs with stuff like 'Monsters Mod for Doom3 - Monsters 3 times as grotesque!' which is like 12 Gb and ignore the simpler, but better stuff.



Also, X-Com is a special case. R Havell has a point, you know. A lot of oldies aren't that good and contrary to common opinion, new games do NOT just improve on the graphics, if they are well made they can be some of the best games ever.

See Freelancer for example. Or the (reasonably new) Combat Mission games. Even Grim Fandango :D.

All of these are fantastic games, all of these are quite new (although I now remember that GF is like 7 years old).