Question On Where To Go Next [Archive]

NrmMyth

15-03-2005, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Kon-Tiki@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 AM
I'd say you best try your luck in Visual Basic now. Its syntax is inbetween what you know now and the syntax of C/C++, Java, PHP, etc.
Kon-Tiki told you good.
I don't have expirience in VB but for sure I can tell you that you don't have to think of details and still program freely.

aaberg

15-03-2005, 10:03 PM

If you want to program Visual Basic, then I would suggest using the newest version of the language called VB.NET. The old VB is on it's way out, and will not be supported much longer. It's quite a step to move from VB to VB.NET, so you better just make the step once.

If I where you, I would choose to learn C#. It is very similar to other popular languages (C++, java, php). The VB syntax is very different to other languages, and doesn't always make sence. If you can program VB, you cannot necessarily program other languages. If you can program C#, it's very easy to lean almost any other language. And a lot of people think C# is easier learn, because of the fact, that there are fewer keywords to remember than in VB. You can use both VB.NET and C# for making windows and web applications.

Java is also a great language, and there are a lot of free tools for programming java. This could also be your new language.
:ok:

NrmMyth

15-03-2005, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by aaberg@Mar 15 2005, 11:03 PM
If you want to program Visual Basic, then I would suggest using the newest version of the language called VB.NET. The old VB is on it's way out, and will not be supported much longer. It's quite a step to move from VB to VB.NET, so you better just make the step once.

If I where you, I would choose to learn C#. It is very similar to other popular languages (C++, java, php). The VB syntax is very different to other languages, and doesn't always make sence. If you can program VB, you cannot necessarily program other languages. If you can program C#, it's very easy to lean almost any other language. And a lot of people think C# is easier learn, because of the fact, that there are fewer keywords to remember than in VB. You can use both VB.NET and C# for making windows and web applications.

Java is also a great language, and there are a lot of free tools for programming java. This could also be your new language.
:ok:
That may be correct, but I think that .NET products have a price, unless..........
...........:twisted: you have a friend that ownes them.

Kon-Tiki

16-03-2005, 06:25 AM

Not to mention you'd have to have the .NET runtime environment installed. It comes standard with XP sp2, I believe, but everything before that still needs that installed. I know that I myself am definitely not going to install that, simply for the programmer's ease of work. I don't want to bloat my Win98.

Reup

16-03-2005, 08:14 AM

:Brain: Java :Brain: cross-platform all the way! And pretty easy to learn (plus you learn the OOP paradigm which is also a very good one)!

Oh, you might give Python a try as well. It's a pretty decent scripting/programming language that has a lot of potential imho! If however, the Windows-platform is your only concern, I guess Visual Basic is ok... at least the IDE is pretty good :)

Danny252

16-03-2005, 03:19 PM

I wanna learn Java... Ive even got a big book of it from my dad ^^
Think there's a few things on oracle hidden in these piles of books, by the looks of things...

Bagerist

16-03-2005, 08:49 PM

I don't english so well.

Braćo HRVATI! zar na Hrvatskoj stranici mi moramo pisati engleski?
Bez obzira tko kako voli ja sam ovu raspravu otvorio da saznam nešto više o programiranju, kako napraviti nešto korisno, možda jednog dana budući Windows, ali zašto to nebi napravili zajedno? Linux je danas otvoreni kod i svatko ga može instalirati bez obzira dali je plačena verzija ili neka osnovna.

Svaka čast na vašim primjedbama jer ima zanimljivih stvari!

Nažalost radi ograničenja vremena ja sam na internetu 2-3 puta tjedno, ali zato mi se uvjek možete javiti na mobitel, ili putem MSN Messenger-a. Adresa je: Tomislav.varzic@os.htnet.hr.

Puno pozdrava slima i nadam se da će moj prijedlog biti razmotren u vašim raspravama.

P.S. Molim da netko ovo prevede i kolegama koji nisu iz Hrvatske a imaju volje da pomognu!

Pozdrav SVIMA!

Jim6

16-03-2005, 09:45 PM

Just to contradict absolutely everyone else - go C++! It's piles better than Java - it's lower level, which means loads of fun with memory management, but if you're looking for a challenge..!

It's also cross-platform (in case you didn't know already!)

punch999

17-03-2005, 12:15 AM

can anyone tell me what Przilicaturbak said

and i think i will try java i might get vb.net but that costs alot more money then i have

jim look at my age c++ is way to complex for me

Jim6

17-03-2005, 12:53 AM

OMG! You only take up like, half of the picture! ... I feel so old(!)

C++ wouldn't actually be more complex than java to start with; but it has the capabilities of doing more when you get more advanced.

I'd advise against .net - if only because that ties you to an OS.

edit: Hmm... It seems as though part of my post turned into a smiley. How odd...

Marek

17-03-2005, 05:11 AM

For me C#is the first language to offer REAL OO Support,

I've almost finished nocking together a space strategy conquest game in about 3 weeks (MOO2 type game), and thats only after hours.

In total about 10 hours worth...

Its not quite finished yet, but the basic logic behind it is done...

The only problem I am having is the Graphical side, I don't know Direct X for squat!

At the moment I am just using Ani Gifs for zooming into planets and seeing them rotate and stuff...

But moving to C# was the best move I ever made...

Bear in mind that whilst there is a growing demand in the corporate world for Java and other "Cross platform" products there will always be a spot for someone with Microsoft based skills... :bye:

NrmMyth

17-03-2005, 08:25 PM

I have to agree to what Jim6 has said. :kosta:
The C++ is the most powerful language when it comes to detailed programming.
I'm the one of them that suports hard, but powerful programming languages like C++, and not some easy to learn "stuff :not_ok: ".

And about Przilicaturbaks post, it's croatian my mother language. So if I find time I will translate it to you.

Jim6

18-03-2005, 12:13 AM

Whoah - I'm here only a week and I've already got a Kosta! :D

Actually, I'd like to know about C# -> how is it different from ++? Is it another offshoot from C? My (mis)conceptions tell me it's based around the internet, but all I really know about it is from Computer Scientists, and all I can get from them is "it's muck". Presumably it's good for something..?

Kon-Tiki

18-03-2005, 12:20 AM

It's basically for ease of the programmer, but it shows in the quality and ease for the end-user.

Marek

18-03-2005, 05:07 AM

Actually, I'd like to know about C# -> how is it different from ++?

To understand what C# is you must first understand what the .NET Framework is...

"The .NET Framework is a foundation for software development. The .NET Framework consists of the common language run time, which provides many of the core services required for program execution, and the .NET base class library, which exposes a set of predeveloped classes to facilitate program development. The Common Language Specification defines a minimum set of standards that all languages using the .NET Framework must support, and the Common Type System ensures type compatibility between components developed in different languages."

Now whichever .Net language you use is complied into a common Intermediate language.

This means that VB.Net, C#.Net, C++.Net, J#.Net and any other .Net language produced by any other third party will compile into the same Intermediate language...

Essentially they are the same at the end of the day...
And completely interoperable...

The real major difference between the languages is the syntax.
For people with VB experience VB.Net is a way to expose the .Net Framework in a familiar way...
and the same with C++ people.

You can actually compare the code for VB.Net and C#.Net Line for Line and whilst the syntax is different you can see how each line is basically the same...

C# however is where all Microsoft's efforts are going.
It's very similar to C++ or Java syntax.

There are a few nice features that are only available in C# and I think that Microsoft is simply trying to encourage more people to go that route...

Now that I have bored you... LOL

Jim6

18-03-2005, 07:55 AM

Actually I found it quite informative! :blink:

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man :D

NrmMyth

18-03-2005, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Jim6@Mar 18 2005, 08:55 AM
...

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man :D
If you bought it... :twisted:

Marek

18-03-2005, 08:18 AM

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man*

I assume you mean Selling yourself to Microsoft?

If so then you are 100% correct!

Nothing stopping you from doing something else as well though...

I'm a C# MCP but our biggest client is deciding to go the Java route...
So now we are all sitting here at work practicing our Java.

They have decided to use Enterprise Java Beans on the Server side and then to have all the clients(or frontends) in .NET because all the existing stuff is done in VS6 or .NET

You'd think they would either move completely to .NET or Redo everything in Java... not a mix of Both.
Its gonna be a logistics nightmare... :crazy:

Marek

18-03-2005, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by NrmMyth+Mar 18 2005, 09:17 AM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NrmMyth @ Mar 18 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-Jim6@Mar 18 2005, 08:55 AM
...

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man* :D
If you bought it... :twisted: [/b][/quote]
Yes that is a problem...

For me to get a legal copy for at home I would have to spend like and entire Months salary... :cry:

But there are downsized versions and even a few free compilers for C# etc.

But nothing with the strength of VS.NET Prof.

Its a real pity... :cry:

dragonLancer

18-03-2005, 01:28 PM

well i must agree with jim on this too because C++ can get you very far in the gamming industries or for just writing programs for fun. It has a huge spand of things you can do with it (plus it has an easy to use computer langauge which is always a +) well if you thinkin of gettin into another language deffinatly go with C++ :ok:

Ioncannon

19-03-2005, 02:06 PM

one problem with C# is it only runs in Windows, correct? It won't run in Linux, Mac OS, or Palm OS...

NrmMyth

19-03-2005, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Ioncannon@Mar 19 2005, 03:06 PM
one problem with C# is it only runs in Windows, correct? It won't run in Linux, Mac OS, or Palm OS...
Correct!

Kon-Tiki

20-03-2005, 02:32 PM

What exactly're these nice features of C#? The way I see it, each programming language has its nice features and annoyances, and a true programmer knows to pick the right language from his arsenal (a real programmer that only knows one language'd be odd, for some reason) for the job, basing it on the priorities of the project and how the nice features fit in there. For example, if one'd need to make a simple slideshow program that'd run under Windows, you wouldn't go about doing it in Assembly, but in Visual Basic. If you'd have to have a small tool that'd quickly go through a list of files, looking for a few user-defined strings, one'd turn to Perl and not Java or VB. What I'm wondering 'bout, is what makes C# better than all the other languages, that it deserves all focus.

On a side-note... mind if I'd use your post (with proper credit given, of course) when that explanation's needed in the future?

Jim6

21-03-2005, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by NrmMyth+Mar 18 2005, 09:17 AM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NrmMyth @ Mar 18 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ******QuoteBegin-Jim6@Mar 18 2005, 08:55 AM
...

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man* :D
If you bought it... :twisted: [/b][/quote]
Well, no - because your stuff would still only run under Windows. I'm much happier being able to compile for different systems.

And Kon-Tiki: What you're really asking is "What is .Net good for" - if you look at the definiton he gave, C# is just ".Net for C programmers". Beyond that though...(?)

NrmMyth

21-03-2005, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Jim6+Mar 21 2005, 08:03 PM****</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jim6 @ Mar 21 2005, 08:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by NrmMyth@Mar 18 2005, 09:17 AM
******QuoteBegin-Jim6@Mar 18 2005, 08:55 AM
...

It seems like a good idea; but it's still selling yourself to th man* :D
If you bought it... :twisted:
Well, no - because your stuff would still only run under Windows. I'm much happier being able to compile for different systems.
...[/b][/quote]
Well you can code in nice microsoft environment ...
..but who said that you have to compile it in that environment. :angel:
With that code you can do whatever you want.

Jim6

21-03-2005, 10:23 PM

Unless I'm very mistaken, you're coding for .net; which is very windows-specific.

(Is it just me, or is this thread looping? :blink:)

Marek

22-03-2005, 08:57 AM

Yes we're looping....

But I write for windows, therefor the best language for me is a .Net language...

But obviously, if your target is not necessarily windows based then it would be a bit silly to learn C#...

If your target is another platform or multi platform, then don't listen to me 'cause I don't know squat... :ok:

:ot:
On a side-note... mind if I'd use your post (with proper credit given, of course) when that explanation's needed in the future?

Are you asking me? :blink:

Ok I don't mind... :ok:

NrmMyth

22-03-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Jim6@Mar 21 2005, 11:23 PM
Unless I'm very mistaken, you're coding for .net; which is very windows-specific.

(Is it just me, or is this thread looping? :blink:)
Well, what do I do?
At every contest I use Visual C/C++ from Microsoft.
Then when I have to submit my solutions I just delete precompiled header and fix _tmain().
After this I have an ordinary C/C++ code that can be compiled on every compiler even on linux.
One thing only - I never use non standard functions. Never!

Jim6

22-03-2005, 03:25 PM

Yeah - except you're talking about C(++) and we're talking C#!

Anywaay, I think all that's going to be said about C* has been. Does anyone else have a language to sponser?

NrmMyth

22-03-2005, 06:09 PM

:wall: me!
Sorry I got lost to the point.

About C#, it's true that you are "bond" with windows.
Becouse of that I will never programm in C# , except I would !have! to... ...maybe for buissnes later on...?!? :ok:

Reup

23-03-2005, 11:14 AM

One of the benefits Java offers over C++ is the fact that you can't really have any memory leaks, so your productivity goes way up. Since the speed issue that used to give Java it's negative name has been virtually eliminated (better VM's, faster hardware) the amount of money saved during development time greatly outweighs the optimised code that C++ can deliver, not to mention the endless hunt for bugs and such.

Obviously there's no such thing as one language that's the best in everything, so your choice should depend on what you want to create, how much time you have, your skills as a programmer etc etc.

There's a huge rise of interest in Java game programming (due to the write once, run anywhere nature of the language and the growing number of mobile phones that support the J2ME) so choosing Java will ^not^ disqualify you for a career in the gaming industry.

Anyway, I just like Java :) But it's in no way the holy grail of programming... but neither is C++ of C# or any other language :)