View Full Version : The Elder Scrolls
I've just finished Morrowind. I started it ages ago (probably well over a year) but managed to keep the saved game. Not that I didn't like it enough, on the contrary I did like it. Now I'm planning to get Oblivion and play it. After playing Arena (not finished), Daggerfall and Morrowind, I love The Elder Scrolls series because of the free roaming, the skill-based system, and the universe/lore--which is incredibly rich for video games, in my opinion the best stuff after Tolkien, certainly superior to all D&D crapware combined.
If I had a complaint about Morrowind, it would be that villages, towns and cities are too small, up to the point that they aren't communities at all (and strangely lacking whole families, and there are no children!). I know this is an evolution from Arena and Daggerfall, where the world was huge but featureless. In Morrowind nothing is generated randomly, at the cost of having many less things, including these ridiculous cities that don't look like such at all. I'd have liked more features than in Daggerfall, but not like this. It just doesn't look like a world you can believe and feel immersed in.
Morrowind also resulted tremendously easy, easier than Daggerfall. With daedric equipment and after leveling up attributes and so, even Dagoth Ur is a piece of cake. I can kill a Dremora with two blows and it can't harm me. And I have almost 2 million gold, because I got tired of how ridiculously poor merchants are.
Arena was one of the most pioneering games of all time, a free-roaming first-person 3D RPG. Its downside within the TES saga is that the story's unimaginative and the universe was made up for a video game and contains no lore. But it has the best dungeons.
Daggerfall started to build the lore that turned the saga into something special, from Arena's mongrel world. Also the world was even more vast than in Arena but it started to have many features, although generic NPCs continued to have very poor conversation; but it was a step in the right direction. The dungeons in Daggerfall were based on a good idea in practice, but at least in the resolution the game has, the 3D maps are impossible to read. And whoever designed the dungeons forgot to make any architectural sense too.
As I already said I think Morrowind regrettably took a big step backwards in terms of imagining a world. I know there are lots of places to be and I haven't explored half of them, but I can't get past the fact that cities are made up of half two dozens households and villages of half a dozen (again no children).
Other than that it was so long since the first two installments were released, and Morrowind is the first TES game with better than 320x200 ugly-ass graphics, and graphics were so much better. But I can't really put my finger on any special upside Morrowind could have, compared to previous installments. It's quite long since I played Daggerfall, but I'm afraid I'll have to consider it the peak of the saga (so far, I haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim yet). However I do like Morrowind a lot on the whole as a game.
There's another thing, about quests. Randomly generated worlds (like in Arena and Daggerfall) have randomly generated quests, and just like NPC conversations these are taken from a small set, and very soon they end up being repetitive. But in Morrowind (actually in the main quests of Arena and Daggerfall too) all quests are pre-written. And the result is... at times even poorer. I appreciate that dungeon crawling and killing monsters and stealing expensive stuff is cliched, but in particular many of the Hortator quests were stupid. It was just traveling and having unremarkable conversations which didn't even deserve to be called formalities. (I should think it would be a little harder for a foreigner to be appointed Hortator of the Dunmer.)
__________________
So, any advice for someone who just finished Morrowind (I know, incredible) and plans to start Oblivion in the future? Or any comment on the rant above?
MyVitalRemains
22-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Overall I think you did an amazing job with summing up the series of games that you play. Unlike most other game series retrospectives (or whatever you want to call it), you don't start talking to us about the history of Bethesda or how the series was influenced by post-atmospheric technical blackened death/thrash (not really but I'm just saying).
I observed that a bunch of the problems that you had in Morrowind were fixed in Skyrim. I personally felt that each of the cities (NOT the towns) in the game were actually very unique, each having a bunch of people that you can get to know about. To me they felt very realistic. Also the combat in Skyrim, if not played on the harder difficulties, can get a bit boring and easy. So, if you play does games I highly recommend playing on MASTERFUL.
My main problem with the first two Elder Scrolls games is that they didn't feel real. I never really felt emotionally connected to any characters or NPCs. Whereas if I kill an innocent person in Skyrim, I feel a bit guilty.
P.S. Did you finish Morrowind because of my review or is it just a coincidence that you wanted to play it? :whistling:
jonh_sabugs
22-05-2012, 10:14 PM
It's odd, but for me it's the removal of the randomness and generated places that makes morrowind my favourite in the series, as opposed to Daggerfall. Also, lots of people complain the game is ugly as hell, but in terms of visuals I still prefer it over Oblivion, it's very atmospheric and detailed. Skyrim, on the other hand, looks amazing.
I believe it's the atmosphere and the effort put in things to do, from collecting herbs in the countryside, to raising a weird tree-like tower fortress in the middle of nowhere, that makes this game for me. The combat system and overall mechanics are, like the other TES games, the weakness. I don't know, I wouldn't compare it to the D&D games, the focus seems rather different for me.
P.S. Did you finish Morrowind because of my review or is it just a coincidence that you wanted to play it? :whistling:
I'm on vacation this week and I felt like playing, I couldn't tell if anything I read here influenced me or how much. :) I had the saved game lying around. The same happened with Daggerfall, I didn't finish them in one or two goes; I'm not a kid any longer. I might even consider giving Arena another try, I feel guilty about not finishing it, but it gets repetitive and I've never saved an old game and then re-taken it.
In Morrowind I left the difficulty at the default level, actually I didn't realize for a very long time that there was a slider in the options, I expect that when starting a new game.
On second thought the best part of Morrowind within the series for me is the story. Arena had none worth noting; Daggerfall was awesome starting to write the history about the Dwemer and Numidium; but there's nothing like the war of the Chimer and the Dwemer, Nerevar, the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur, as told in Morrowind.
I acknowledge the downsides of random generation, but I hate to realize that a game world doesn't make sense when you stop for a while and look at it, that it's just a board for you to do what you're supposed to do and nothing else. Here, size (of cities etc) matters. I know I should be used to reduced worlds, as all RPGs have them. But Arena and Daggerfall proposed something different.
jonh_sabugs
23-05-2012, 12:47 AM
Interesting point, but would size be enough to make the cities feel more alive? I don't know, I felt I was in a living world in some Ultima games, specially VII ones, but it's not something I can say for many games. I guess NPCs behaviour and sense of progression in towns is more important.
Interesting point, but would size be enough to make the cities feel more alive? I don't know, I felt I was in a living world in some Ultima games, specially VII ones, but it's not something I can say for many games. I guess NPCs behaviour and sense of progression in towns is more important.
I finished Daggerfall then Arena. For me Arena is better than Daggerfall.
I want to play all 5 games of TES.
Very soon i will start Morrowind.
I like TES.
But i have to upgrade my video card to play Skyrim.
hunvagy
23-05-2012, 08:09 AM
And I just sneak this in here for people with new rigs ;) How it'll look (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N-3zCPVZW0) and of course Where to get it. (http://morrowindoverhaul.rpgitalia.net/)
Hmmm....nice.
Is this video from real game Morrowind, Hunvagy?
Is the hero Dark Elf?
I am asking because plan to start soon the game.
The environment and sound are great.
But opponents are very weak - just 2 small mouses and 2 grasshoppers!
Are these 2-legs T.rex-like creatures friendly?
Pls excuse my naive comments.
hunvagy
23-05-2012, 02:25 PM
Hmmm....nice.
Is this video from real game Morrowind, Hunvagy?
Is the hero Dark Elf?
I am asking because plan to start soon the game.
The environment and sound are great.
But opponents are very weak - just 2 small mouses and 2 grasshoppers!
Are these 2-legs T.rex-like creatures friendly?
Pls excuse my naive comments.
Not my video, but yes, that is real footage from a modded Morrowind with the Morrowind Overhaul. And those things you murdered.. only the rat is the enemy. The little bugs are neutral. And the two legged creatures are not friendly if they are diseased :p Basically anything that attacks you is fair game.
TheChosen
23-05-2012, 02:57 PM
It does eat the immersion when there's only 5 people walking around the busy streets of Caldera. I recommend Morrowind Comes Alive, which makes the places look bit livelier.
That's what I mean, the immersion and suspension of disbelief. The whole original idea behind RPGs, even though computer RPGs are (even) more oriented towards action. I guess development time gets eaten by the priority aspects of the game; people don't mind "arrows to the knee" if the game's fun.
I've never used any mods. I wouldn't know where to start, there are so many in so many websites... But this Morrowind Comes Alive sounds great, I'll keep it in mind if I re-play this someday.
Of course NPC intelligence and variety is more important than size. Morrowind isn't great in this department. I don't think I've played RPG that's good in this. Again priorities.
@Yoga, what didn't you like about Daggerfall? I loved it but dungeons did put me off. At the end of the game I was looking up the walkthrough to find my way through the main quest dungeons, because the maps were a nightmare; it's too bad. In Arena the dungeons have a great atmosphere. But I don't like that enemies appear out of nowhere, and combat and magic are too fast.
How stupid is it that so many RPGs have rats attack you and you need a weapon to kill them...?!
MyVitalRemains
23-05-2012, 09:35 PM
And I just sneak this in here for people with new rigs ;) How it'll look (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N-3zCPVZW0) and of course Where to get it. (http://morrowindoverhaul.rpgitalia.net/)
The game looks so amazing... it could compete with some games today, visually, that is.
@Yoga, what didn't you like about Daggerfall? I loved it but dungeons did put me off. At the end of the game I was looking up the walkthrough to find my way through the main quest dungeons, because the maps were a nightmare; it's too bad. In Arena the dungeons have a great atmosphere. But I don't like that enemies appear out of nowhere, and combat and magic are too fast.
How stupid is it that so many RPGs have rats attack you and you need a weapon to kill them...?![/quote]
:D
OK, dear Japo. TY.
Your question contains the answer. The Maps. Abs. terrible in Daggerfall. In many cases i was unable to find the exit... so yes... Load again the game. Too many endless dungeons in Daggerfall. No same in Arena.
In Arena i am able to fly. No flying in Daggerfall.
In Arena there is water crossing with boat. Can not remember in Daggerfall.
If You put down an object after a while it disappeared (Daggerfall).
In some tasks the enemies attacked from above and for me was very hard to up my view and take care(Daggerfall).
The spell Passwall in Arena is very nice. Like a mole my hero goes through stone walls. Very, very nice.
No, i do not hate Daggerfall. It is a good game but (see above) i like Arena more.
Enjoy Your vacation.
yog
Which game between Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind do You prefer?
BranjoHello
24-05-2012, 05:11 PM
I played Morrowind for about 750h without finishing the main story (Later I created another game where I focused just on main quest), that alone can convince anyone how great the game is. I just felt so immersed in the world it was so believable, just calling for me to explore it more and more (pixel y pixel). The NPCs maybe weren't many but almost each one of them had soul. Visually it was one of the best games on the market when it came out. And the music, my goodness, I still listen to it now and then in winamp.
Oblivion is good but the random dungeons and stupid leveling of the world with your progress killed a lot of the magic. About 300h spent there.
I'm now playing Skyrim, 80h in it and it is just thrilling, the world is great, combat is challenging (I'm playing in Master difficulty) and the things that are made "easier" from previos installments are like that in a good way.
As for Arena and Daggerfall, I'll probably never finish the first one (tried 2 times and couldn't play it for more than 10 minutes) but I have high hopes for Daggerfall, curently I just finished the first dungeon and traveled to civilization. Not much mileage there.
@Japo
Are you 100% possitive about Morrowind having the choise of difficulty? I don't remember that.
Jironobou
24-05-2012, 07:56 PM
I played Morrowind@Japo
Are you 100% possitive about Morrowind having the choise of difficulty? I don't remember that.
Yeah, there's a difficulty slider in Morrowind and Oblivion, it should be under options somewhere.
As far as Oblivion, the only thing I can recommend is the quest message popup remover addon mod thing, because without it every quest will have a little popup that comes up when you complete a part of it, and it ruins immersion (EVERY quest has it). In fact, you can see it in the intro dungeon, it's like that through the whole game.
Oh, and if you want to check out Morrowind again, you could consider the Morrowind Rebirth mod, it isn't a graphical overhaul, but it expands each city/village, adds items and quests, fixes balance issues, and just adds to the world.
@Yoga, I guessed dungeon maps may be your problem too. I have a bro tip for you: Recall (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Mysticism_Spells). This is a spell that teleports you to a location previously set by you, for example the entrance of a dungeon. As you said the toughest part is finding the exit back, because the whole dungeon is drawn on the map; at the start it's easier to see where the map has unexplored ends (although it should be marked more clearly). So you cast recall at the entrance of the dungeon, then explore it, and when you're done with your objective and want to exit, no more bashing your head against the keyboard, just cast recall again and you're out!
This should return the joy to dungeon crawling in Daggerfall. It's absolutely indispensable. Sadly I suffered a lot too, because I usually don't like magic in RPGs, and in Arena and Daggerfall I find it too powerful, so I made a special character (http://i102.photobucket.com/download-albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_0062.png) (both immune to magic (http://i102.photobucket.com/download-albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_000.png) and unable to cast), but he couldn't use recall because it never comes on enchanted items.
Hm I think I'll also give Daggerfall another go, it's been very long. And I'll be sure to have at least this spell.
Not counting the graphics, I think I'd say Daggerfall is my favorite, because it was the first RPG that was a real sandbox. Arena in comparison is too monotone and repetitive. Daggerfall also created the history (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History) and the world of the Elder Scrolls, which is the best in video game series. In my opinion Morrowind dropped the ball a little in the sandbox department, because of what I said earlier. But if you care about graphics even a little, Morrowind wins of course. And if you're not too obsessed about graphics, they're good enough even for today, and they run on any computer.
@BranjoHello, not sure about NPCs' souls in Morrowind. Even though nothing of them is generated randomly, 99% of their conversation is shared. And once a NPC fulfills his purpose his conversation becomes out of date: for example the priest who introduced me to the Archcannon keeps asking me about it, even after I met fucking Vivec; hello, news? But I like the hypertext format, compared to Arena and Daggerfall.
The difficulty slider in Morrowind is in the options, I also missed its existence during most of the time I played the game. :(
@Jironobou, thanks for the mod suggestion. Keep them coming. It's great that these games can be modded to address their weak spots. It's something I have to look into.
Right now I'm playing Arena. I don't like that combat is ridiculously fast, you don't have time to take a look at your enemy, or cast magic for that matter. It could be because of DOSBox or modern computers but I don't think so; if I decrease the cycles the whole game starts being choppy. I quested for the Oghma Infinitum lots of times to max my character out, then I quested for Ariel's Bow, and then I cheated to be able to quest for three more artifacts: the Necromancer's Amulet, the Ring of Phynaster, and the Ring of the Khajiit. Right now I'm in the Labyrynthion. Arena is very hard.
After Arena and maybe Daggerfall I'll look for good mods for Morrowind (more NPCs, much more money for merchants, and I'll take a look around) and play it some more. It does have a lot of replay value. After that I'll finally think about playing Oblivion. All this could take years, mind you.
jonh_sabugs
24-05-2012, 09:44 PM
I find the combat to be rather flawed in the entire TES series, and it was never its strong point.
Daggerfall, in my opinion, is one of those games with incredible potential, but never comes close to it. It's odd actually, the idea is so great, and it could turn so amazing if someone were to work on it again, and actually see it through. I don't know, when I realize this about a game, it saddens me. I never managed to spend much time on it, the bugs, broken features and nightmarish dungeons always put me off.
MyVitalRemains
24-05-2012, 10:00 PM
Has anyone here ever played any of the spinoff TES games like An Elder Scrolls Legend: Battlespire and The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard?
Also what do you people think The Elder Scrolls Online will be like?
Mighty Midget
24-05-2012, 10:14 PM
Also what do you people think The Elder Scrolls Online will be like?
I suspect it will be something like
Press http://onlyagame.typepad.com/ihobo/images/ps2-tri.jpg to fight.
Press http://onlyagame.typepad.com/ihobo/images/ps2-x.jpg to start/end dialogue.
TheChosen
24-05-2012, 10:36 PM
Has anyone here ever played any of the spinoff TES games like An Elder Scrolls Legend: Battlespire and The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard?
Also what do you people think The Elder Scrolls Online will be like?
I have Redguard, but its a pain to get to work on modern OS. One option that would work is a specific kind of emulator, but thats also one of the few emulators out there and require a purchase. So because of that, I havent actually played it, but it looks bit like Tomb Raider.
Battlespire on the other hand is little bit like Daggerfall, but its nothing but dungeon crawling in pre-made dungeons rather than randomly generated. Or so I gather from the reviews.
I'll probably skip the MMO. Those arent just the types of games I play. It has generated some amusing whining though.
Speaking of Morrowind and MMO's, Im reminded of this old thing I discovered years ago. I guess some people do want to share their trips to the Tamriel.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060322201927/archives.ravensky.org/2006/01/16/regarding_morrowind_online/index.html
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=5331
Havent tried it, because lord knows I've already had enough problems getting some mods to work with each others and this sounds like pure sorcery to me.
MyVitalRemains
25-05-2012, 12:45 AM
I suspect it will be something like
Press http://onlyagame.typepad.com/ihobo/images/ps2-tri.jpg to fight.
Press http://onlyagame.typepad.com/ihobo/images/ps2-x.jpg to start/end dialogue.
I doubt that Bethesda will make the mistake of making the MMO console-oriented. Most people (at least I believe most people) wouldn't want to play one on a console for many reasons. I also heard that it will be in a third-person perspective (yuck :sick:), which makes me want to ignore the game altogether.
DarthHelmet86
25-05-2012, 02:20 AM
Most MMOs are third person and Skyrim is third person too, you just have to hit a button. :p
The difficulty slider in Morrowind did not exist in the first release it only came out with the first expansion and patches related to that. So people who played it early or without patching it never got that option.
TheChosen
25-05-2012, 03:51 AM
Plus looking in third person is the only proper way to play dress-up with your character.
....what?
DarthHelmet86
25-05-2012, 04:09 AM
As a person who plays MMOs this might sound like a joke to some people but a lot of MMO players love seeing how awesome their gear looks. I don't know if Beth will pull off an MMO from the Elder Scrolls, this would need to be done well and I doubt it will be a WoW killer even if it is done perfectly, before anyone jumps on that bandwagon.
But hey if it works it works, I will be keeping an eye on this closer to when it comes out. This is a risky move MMOs aren't the same as normal games, they come with a lot more problems. Server issues, balance, bugs and glitches, constant needing of patching. We will see how Beth works it all out.
hunvagy
25-05-2012, 05:44 AM
Or you just press tab in morrowind to look how your character looks. Anyway TES Online will be a straight up WoW Clone, which means it's going to be an insta fail. There's not enough originality in it to hold up against ToR, WoW, whatever.
Redguard is a pain to run, and even with the emulator, it's slow as molasses. Too bad, it's a fun little game, actually.
Battlespire is a straight up dungeon crawl, and quite annoying imo.
On a sidenote, 1.6 Skyrim patch is coming, and we will have *drumroll* mounted combat ;)
DarthHelmet86
25-05-2012, 05:59 AM
You got a source on that WoW Clone part? And clone of what part of WoW, the UI? The quests? The combat? If they went and copied WoWs combat they would have a hard time getting more then a few moves out of the games current playstyle. I would suspect it would be more an Age Of Conan style with a more action oriented combat and with a much more open leveling system. I just can't see Beth making a Warrior class and a Mage class.
TotalAnarchy
25-05-2012, 06:11 AM
From what I gathered, this so called MMO is more like a Single-Player game with a multiplayer component. Therefore it should resemble LOTRO more.
[quote=Japo;442709]@Yoga, I guessed dungeon maps may be your problem too. I have a bro tip for you: Recall (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Mysticism_Spells). This is a spell that teleports you to a location previously set by you, for example the entrance of a dungeon. As you said the toughest part is finding the exit back, because the whole dungeon is drawn on the map; at the start it's easier to see where the map has unexplored ends (although it should be marked more clearly). So you cast recall at the entrance of the dungeon, then explore it, and when you're done with your objective and want to exit, no more bashing your head against the keyboard, just cast recall again and you're out!
......
Arena is very hard......
@Japo
Thank You for your good solution of Daggerfall dungeons - spell Recall. Because i will play it again.
Thank You for your answer conc. which is better game between A, D and Morrowind.
BTW Yesterday I started Morrowind. More in my threat.
Arena is very hard.???? I will politely disagree with You.
Do You ever meet generated from nothing non stop Minions of Dungeon master 2? No safe place, nowhere. Every moment the hero may suffer from attacking minions. I never meet such a hard game, believe me.
No, for the brave Arena is not Hard game...Piece of cake. :whistling:
Do not forget Passwall.
TES is nice game saga. My ambition is till prepare for my game listing to play Morrowind also.
Hey, DarthHelmet86,
do You finish Skyrim?
DarthHelmet86
25-05-2012, 10:40 AM
I have not beaten Skyrim yet, I have purposely avoid doing the main storyline. But have beaten most of the faction quest lines.
I understand Redguard is more like an adventure or action adventure, with 3rd person perspective like Tomb Raider. It has to be interesting, I wonder if the story is as good as other TES games.
If I ever played a MMORPG it would probably be this one. I like the TES world very much, and I dislike WOW's one. But I don't think I will.
On a sidenote, 1.6 Skyrim patch is coming, and we will have *drumroll* mounted combat ;)
This just shows you the reason why these games fall short of their potential: they're released too soon, at alpha stage before they've had the time to add all the features in the design. But it's understandable, they have to make money.
Arena is very hard.???? I will politely disagree with You.
Well I found the Fortress of Ice very hard (and I'm playing a Nord), but the dungeons after that, including the Labyrinthion and the Elder Grove, are much easier!
What I have most problems with is enemies that use magic attacks, they do a lot of damage. But I do have a ring of Forcewall and the Necromancer's Amulet and the Ring of Phynaster (absorb spell, spell shield), so I'm prepared (but the protecting effects last for a limited time).
Do You ever meet generated from nothing non stop Minions of Dungeon master 2? No safe place, nowhere. Every moment the hero may suffer from attacking minions. I never meet such a hard game, believe me.
Well that's exactly what happens in Arena. :P Enemies can spawn out of the blue at the point you were just stepping into, or the one you were at a tenth of a second ago. This was improved in Daggerfall, the game remembers what areas you have cleared out and it's more tactical. I like to rest by the stairs, so when enemies appear I can flee to the other floor and continue resting and so on.
I played Dungeon Master (1) a long ago and it was very good, even though I had to make my own maps. I didn't finish it. I think it's plain dungeon crawling what you seem to like best; Morrowind doesn't have a lot of it.
Jironobou
25-05-2012, 04:40 PM
So if you go to the pages for Redguard (http://uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Redguard) and Battlespire (http://uesp.net/wiki/Battlespire:Battlespire) on the UESP, they have little guides to help get them running on DOSBox if you haven't seen it yet (It's under Technical Info on Redguard, and Misc. Info on Battlespire.
I don't know if you've seen it yet, but hopefully it helps
Oh, and Morrowind Rebirth's 1.8 release came out today if anyone cares.
TheChosen
25-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Yes and no, at least for Redguard.
IMPORTANT: While it is possible to run Redguard under DosBox more or less if you play with the configurations long enough, the game will crash for sure if you enter Clavicus Vile's realm. This crash is caused by the core DosBox is emulating. None of the various emulated core-types can prevent this (verified for DosBox v0.73 and 0.74). At the latest at this point you won't be able to proceed with the game. If you don't have access to a true DOS or Windows 95/98 machine there is nothing you can do about this.
DarthHelmet86
26-05-2012, 02:24 AM
Can a VPC with a copy of Win95/98 get passed that point?
I started a game in Daggerfall, and I have to agree that much of what's cool about it is unrealized potential. And dungeons are a pain even with recall (which takes a ton of spell points), because you have to find the quest item/person before. I'm trying to ascend in a temple to get access the potion maker, to see how alchemy is in this game. Whenever they give me a dungeon quest I do the [] cheat, just like at the end of my previous game.
They totally ruined the dungeons, because they were so innovative. Daggerfall had the first real 3D dungeons ever, AFAIK (the Duke Nukem of RPGs), but they made the mistake of making them as maze-like as in traditional RPGs with flat storied dungeons. Even if Daggerfall had a higher resolution and you could rotate the map more freely, it would still be a mess.
You know what 3D game has the best dungeons ever? Tomb Raider. It doesn't have maps, and I wondered why. Now I can imagine they may have studied the concept and concluded that 3D maps were impractical. The levels in Tomb Raider take every advantage of the three dimensions, and they're challenging, but they're just simple enough that you can find your way after a while on your own.
In Arena, only two more pieces of the Staff to go. But the dungeon I'm now in (Mines of Khuras) is seriously hard, full of magic spewing monsters. And I'm not sure what kind of system Arena goes by, but armor class doesn't seem to matter, because I totally cheated to have four artifacts at the same time, but even the weakest monsters can hit me. But only the iron golems are dangerous in melee for me, and I can use my ring of forcewall. The biggest danger is magic, two lowly hellhounds can kill me in the open if I'm not carefull; I have spell shield in the ring of Phynaster, but I'm saving it as much as I can.
I may revisit Morrowind after this. I don't think I've played it enough to exhaust its entertainment value. I'll shop around for mods, now that I know what I like and what I don't.
jonh_sabugs
28-05-2012, 11:36 PM
Magic is broken indeed in Arena. Were you a magician, you could save a bit and buy an absurdly powerful version of shield, which increases in power as you level, rendering you virtually invulnerable. Heh, throw the no-clip spell and fly in the lot and you could walk in a straight line to the objective. TES up to morrowind always struck me as mostly 'let's put lots of stuff in the game and see how it comes out'. I guess that's why they are so fun.
In case it wasn't obvious, in Arena I'm playing a non magic user (knight). Kind of regretting my career choice, if plate armor (etc, summing up to -53) is as protective as being naked. And I'm stuck at level 17; I thought about exploiting a fire demon spawn point to level up, but I didn't after killing a dozen of them, I swear to God. Arena is a nice game for its time, but honestly I wouldn't bother playing it if it weren't an Elder Scrolls game (RPG isn't my only favored genre anyway).
Daggerfall has a great wow factor (for people who didn't play later TES games before it) because of the free roaming in a virtual world, and I can't imagine how much it had when it came out. But it looks unfinished in parts, and the dungeons can be a deal breaker. When I first played I tried very hard, it wasn't until very very late in the game that I decided to resort to the [] cheat, and I didn't even have the recall spell with that character. Now I don't have the patience to deal with dungeons any longer.
I'm looking into Morrowind mods, I'm trying to do my homework but it sounds like there are many things that could go wrong. Besides it seems I'd need the expansions, which I don't have at the moment. I've taken a look at Planet Elders Scrolls and I've made a first selection:
Morrowind Comes Alive (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5047) (thanks to TC for this)
Guars (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6112)
Pegas Horse Ranch (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=2811) (I just want to be able to ride horses, and this is what I've found; not sure what this ranch thing is about).
Do you know these? Any of them has more bugs than features? They're highly rated but from some comments you'd think any of them has a number of significant glitches; or is that the tech support echo chamber?
jonh_sabugs
29-05-2012, 03:13 AM
Yes, I had noticed, I was just considering a hypothetical scenario with a magician. Actually, I was just pointing the flaws in the magic system.
About the mods, I never cared much about them, to be honest. I only used cosmetic ones, like one to have mana regeneration, and other which let me buy chests to the house. Never tried the major ones.
Jironobou
29-05-2012, 05:42 AM
Morrowind Comes Alive (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5047) (thanks to TC for this)
Guars (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6112)
Pegas Horse Ranch (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=2811) (I just want to be able to ride horses, and this is what I've found; not sure what this ranch thing is about).
Well I don't know if this is the same for everyone, but with MCA, I got errors with the new characters' heads until I downloaded the full Westly's Head Pack thing, that might have been fixed, but if you start the game and get a huge load of errors while trying it, try downloading and installing the original Master Head Pack.
Scatty
29-05-2012, 06:50 AM
In Daggerfall spells cost less and less points the higher you train the respective magic school skill. At 95 almost all spells with a single effect already cost only 5 points.
For Morrowind it's a matter of choice which non-official mods to use, my (carefully informed about and selected) choice of those I always use is:
Balmora Apartment
IndyBank v2.4
Mr Big (big money stash merchant in Balmora, for easier selling of expensive / lots of stuff)
Rings of Roan v1.0 (some very strong, useful rings to buy, might be seen as close to cheat by some)
And of course all of those official ones from Bethesda, except Entertainers.
In Daggerfall spells cost less and less points the higher you train the respective magic school skill. At 95 almost all spells with a single effect already cost only 5 points.
For Morrowind it's a matter of choice which non-official mods to use, my (carefully informed about and selected) choice of those I always use is:
Balmora Apartment
IndyBank v2.4
Mr Big (big money stash merchant in Balmora, for easier selling of expensive / lots of stuff)
Rings of Roan v1.0 (some very strong, useful rings to buy, might be seen as close to cheat by some)
And of course all of those official ones from Bethesda, except Entertainers.
In Daggerfall spells problem was easy solved.
Collect money, go and buy all spells you want. I had about 30 spells.
Sadly i can not remember about presence of Levitate spell??
There was a message i hated much:
--You can not rest. Enemies nearby.--
Really i have no problems with the enemies.
Anyway i like this 5 games saga and i have ambition to play all of them.
Even i have to upgrade my videocard to at least 1 GB memory (now 128 MB).
One good improvement in Morrowind is that hero may left object on the ground which will not disappeared after a while.
And this spacious rooms, and nice graphic! Perfect job of the creators.
Hope Obvilion and Skyrim and future ?? will keep this direction.
No any mods.
the dark Elf aka the brave
Oblivion without mod is totally crap.
TheChosen
29-05-2012, 05:39 PM
I dont remember getting any errors with MCA, but then again I did download some headpacks myself.
As for other mod suggestions, get Better Bodies which makes the characters look bit more appealing. Get also better clothes and better heads and they'll stop looking like blocks.
In Daggerfall spells cost less and less points the higher you train the respective magic school skill.
I know, that's why I spent weeks inside the fighters guild (free lodging) training until the cost of recall went below my spell points. When I finally came out of the building I received two delayed letters from Lady Brisienna: in the second one she was angry and called me traitor if I shouldn't appear immediately. :P
In Daggerfall spells problem was easy solved.
Collect money, go and buy all spells you want. I had about 30 spells.
You should never buy spells in Daggerfall, but make them at the spell maker. Either they'll be cheaper (like recall, which is free), or will have lower cost in spell points for the same effect. And of course you can customize power, duration, etc., and combine different effects (e.g. shield+resist+... in a single spell). The exception is when a mages guild quest is all about casting a particular spell, then it has to be from the "Circinate".
Sadly i can not remember about presence of Levitate spell??
There was a levitate spell, as well as the spell effect at the maker, potions and magic objects of levitation.
There was a message i hated much:
--You can not rest. Enemies nearby.--
Really i have no problems with the enemies.
Haha but they do have problems with you, that's why they're called enemies. XD
MrFlibble
29-05-2012, 09:03 PM
Daggerfall has a great wow factor (for people who didn't play later TES games before it) because of the free roaming in a virtual world, and I can't imagine how much it had when it came out. But it looks unfinished in parts, and the dungeons can be a deal breaker.
Yup, dungeon crawling can get annoying, especially when you have explored most of the dungeon and not yet found a quest object. It gets very hard to locate undiscovered areas as the map becomes clamped with explored areas, and hard to navigate. There's also this thing that when you start, you can easily tell which directions are unexplored, and with a mostly-explored dungeon you can mistake a section that is not displayed due to being too far from your current POV in map mode for an unexplored area, and dash there for massive disappointment.
Luckily there are only few quest-relevant points in a dungeon, which can be memorized more or less easily.
I also find it somewhat weird that a dungeon in Daggerfall will be reset after you leave it, giving way to potential almost-cheating by looting the same dungeon over and over again until boredom ensues.
I've also had quite some trouble with swimming with non-magic-users. It seems that swimming without proper magic is problematic, unless you're Argonian at least. It's like with lighting, where you can have a spell that illuminates the area around you, but buying torches and lamps is just useless. I'm confident that useful items like workable torches and lamps (dunno about a medieval fantasy scuba gear though? :lol:) would have helped differentiate playing styles of magic and non-magic classes even further.
TheChosen
29-05-2012, 10:17 PM
Wait, the candles, torches and lanterns actually work? I never realized that!
hunvagy
30-05-2012, 05:56 AM
Wait, the candles, torches and lanterns actually work? I never realized that!
Yup, the daggerfall (and Future Shock/Skynet) engine had real time lighting, so the light sources do work.
I've started a new game in Morrowind, and these are the mods that I've picked, and eventually managed to make work:
- Executor Zurg's Merchant Money Mod. It multiplies by 10 every merchant's money. I honestly couldn't deal with unrealistically deadbeat merchants anymore, or with traveling to Caldera every time to see the Creeper, who's a cheat, and is even also (relatively less) a deadbeat.
- Passive Healthy Widlife. Stupid animals who should run from you don't attack you, like they stupidly and annoyingly do in the original game.
- Morrowind Comes Alive. It's nice to see some random people who don't stay in the same spopt of the same town during their whole life. But it doesn't solve how unrealistically small towns look. Not even how deserted they look, it adds very few people. Still it's something. I've enabled the optional addons: the one for the "Clothiers of Vvanderfell" mod (see below), "More Enemies", and "Guard Patch".
- Westley's Master Headpack X. I don't really care a lot about graphics, but I did regret the so little choice of faces and hairs during character creation. That's the main reason I wanted this.
- Clothiers of Vvanderfell v1.1. I found this because "Morrowind Comes Alive" has an optional addon for it. One of the things it means is that not all women are dressed like nuns, which much to Redoran House's chagrin, is going to happen. It adds some variety, and much like "Better Bodies" and the Heads mods, the meshes have higher resolution and look less blocky. Actually "Better Bodies" is useless if the clothes are the original ones...
- Better Bodies: Since I don't care a lot about graphics I didn't look for this at first. But the clothes in "Clothiers of Vvanderfell" were made for it, and interferred with the original bodies, causing polygonal holes to appear.
- Pegas Horse Ranch v3.1. For horse riding. I've seen a YouTube video and the ranch itself is a little cheesy, it has an elevator.
- Guars. For guar riding.
- Cait's Critters Unleashed 2.0. For farm animals.
- Birdies by Cait and Leeloo. For hi-res birds, although I haven't seen any yet...
I'll report if I have problems with these.
MrFlibble
31-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Wait, the candles, torches and lanterns actually work? I never realized that!
They don't, to the best of my knowledge, and this is why I find it annoying. They could be implemented with the dynamic lighting thing, similar to the "Light" spell, but for some reason they weren't.
DarthHelmet86
01-06-2012, 07:50 AM
I never played Oblivion with any mods and never found it to be crap. In fact I often enjoy it more then Morrowind. But hey everyone is allowed an opinion and if you don't like it that is up to you.
I try and not play any of them with Mods at first and to return to a plain game whenever I can. And normally only use cosmetic mods or UI mods. I do want to make myself a nice house in Skyrim soon, just to have a home away from home that feels like mine.
I never played Oblivion with any mods and never found it to be crap. In fact I often enjoy it more then Morrowind. But hey everyone is allowed an opinion and if you don't like it that is up to you.
Is crap for a hundred of reason, the first one is how the monster level works, in the vanilla oblivion you can became champion of the arena at level 5 and complete the game at level 10, is really a noob game.
TotalAnarchy
01-06-2012, 05:03 PM
Is crap for a hundred of reason, the first one is how the monster level works, in the vanilla oblivion you can became champion of the arena at level 5 and complete the game at level 10, is really a noob game.
I've invested around 30 hours in that game and I never did finish the main quest.
jonh_sabugs
01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
I still haven't found someone who can say they liked Oblivion's level scaling system with a straight face.
Mighty Midget
01-06-2012, 08:55 PM
I still haven't found someone who can say they liked Oblivion's level scaling system with a straight face.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z193/WhoCaresWho/scalingsystem.jpg
jonh_sabugs
01-06-2012, 08:56 PM
Don't we all.
DarthHelmet86
02-06-2012, 04:08 AM
Yeah that level scaling that really sucks, everyone hates that. I mean that is why Morrowind is so good...oh wait...Morrowind has it too (though it is a different form and I prefer the Morrowind/Skyrim version). If you find Oblivion too easy turn up the difficulty to max, if you think you can beat the main mission too fast don't play it. Morrowind can be beaten just as fast by smart players not to mention the speed runs that beat the game in under ten minutes.
Oblivion and Morrowind both have their good parts and their bad parts, to me they weigh out almost the same. I normally end up having more fun in Oblivion since I spend less time feeling lost and confused. Both have short main stories and much much longer side quests and that is where I play. Plus Oblivion has Shivering Isles which has to be one of the best DLCs ever made.
jonh_sabugs
02-06-2012, 05:25 PM
Difficulty is hardly the point. I mentioned earlier I could simply fly through the levels in Arena, and it was still fun. Also, there isn't much level scaling in Morrowind (or at all?). I remember entering some temple full of daedra early in the game and being stomped, then returning and killing them easily later.
Anyway, why exactly are you defending the most foul feature of Oblivion? I see no point to it, really. With it, there is suddenly no point in leveling, it doesn't impact the game at all, in fact you may be screwed if you didn't pick a strictly fight oriented build. The atmosphere is torn apart when you see bandits wearing super armours at the town gates, or overly powerful rats in caves. Such things kill a major part of the fun in RPG games.
TheChosen
03-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Hunvagy posted that earlier. I didnt comment on it, but now after actually watching it some more, that is bloody gorgeous. Almost like a different game.
How much horsepower does it need?
My impression on the mods so far: I couldn't possibly live without the one that gives merchants more money. This was simply outrageous in the original game.
I already said my first impression of MCA. Companions, and random encounters with bandits and ashlanders, are also very nice.
The guars for burden and riding are great. Every RPG should have horses and the like; walking everywhere carrying 100 kg is as absurd as it gets. The graphics while riding are horrible because that's all they could do with the Morrowind engine, but in 1st person you don't see it.
I still haven't visited the horse ranch. I'm not in a hurry since I already have wheels, but I'll try it some day. For some reason the ranch is in Vos (possibly to avoid interferring with other mods that alter more popular locations?) If dark elves use guars mostly and horses come from the empire, the ranch should be in Ebonheart. But as I said the ranch itself is cheesy, from the YouTube video I saw.
The guar mod is more respectful with the original game setting: the guar merchants are ashlanders found in the outskirts of some towns.
Clothiers: The clothes it introduces are incompatible with the clothes and armor in the original game, which it doesn't replace. So you can't use them unless you go unarmored. It also introduces some sets of armor, incompatible with the ones in the original game, and most of them just cheesy/slutty and out of place. And the clothes of most NPCs don't change, just of some introduced by the mod itself. Next time I'll pass.
Better bodies: pointless without better clothes, or armor for that matter, or without being naked of course. Pass too. I understand there are better clothes mods, but if they only enhance the graphics of the existing clothes, instead of adding variety, I'm not interested.
The headpack was nice to overcome the original game's shortcomings during character creation, not just resolution but variety. Although once you put on a helm it's over. And again it doesn't affect NPCs in principle, only the ones introduced by other mods that depend on it such as MCA. So because of that maybe pass too; or maybe not, for character creation and for MCA, which I like too.
Passive Healthy Widlife: nice specially for cliff racers. Although maybe these were supposed to attack humans, lore-wise? Animals will still attack you if you get too near, or if they're diseased.
Cait's critters: the farm animals do give a great ambiance to towns.
Birdies: it has very few birds, probably to avoid trashing the performance. So you're unlikely to see any bird even if you look for them. So pass.
TheChosen
04-06-2012, 12:11 AM
I remember the bird mod. I decided to remove it after I found few of them flying against a base of a mountain.
Hunvagy posted that earlier. I didnt comment on it, but now after actually watching it some more, that is bloody gorgeous. Almost like a different game.
How much horsepower does it need?
Is not heavier than oblivion, so a 6 years old pc can run it without problem.
Mighty Midget
05-06-2012, 10:24 AM
I still have MW with Tribunal & Bloodmoon installed but haven't touched it in a good while. It also had a few mods. Master Index, A Grand Abode, Pack Animal Merchant, Improved Bound and Unique Jewelry & Accessories.
One problem I had with these mods was that some of them messed up the game so that certain spells and magical trinkets didn't work properly. Cleaning up the game worked but by then I was already far into the main story with both Tribunal and Bloodmoon solved and I decided oh to hell with it, school came up and I left MW.
Now, I plan on revisiting it one day but I want it modded silly before I start a new game. Ok so not actually silly but I want to explore the game with as many top mods as I can cram into it, read about one where you could command your own ship like in Daggerfall: I want that one, if it works. Overhaul, certainly but does the overhaul go for the main island only or have they overhauled the expansions as well?
Reading Japo's and the other's reports will help when picking out the mods I want but here's the thing:
Can you guys, if you have successfully modded MW and the mod required some particular attention to get it to work, could you give a short, to the point description of how you made it work? Same if there are any conflicts between mods, great to hear about it and if there are any workarounds to avoid the conflicts. I hate conflicts.
I don't know about the Overhaul, but most mods require you to have one or both expansions, because they have modded them too; there are very few mods for you if you don't have them. Still there are some mods that don't modify one or even both of the expansions.
I tried to do my homework and I extracted some guidelines and a software utility. I have no problems (after the ones I fixed, heh), except when I start the game I get a warning: "One or more plugins could not find the correct version of the master files they depend on." Perhaps one of the mods was built for a different version (patch)? After that I get no more warnings, except when I did something wrong, but I fixed that.
The most common problem people seem to encounter are the dreaded "yellow boxes" instead of graphics for some objects or people. I haven't seen them but they seem to mean missing content (files). Typically it means you un-zipped the files in the wrong folder. Mod files and folders must be un-zipped in the "data files" sub-folder of the Morrowind installation folder, but some mods come in zips containing the files and folders in the root, while others have a "data files" folder hanging from the root of the zip. So a lot of people end with their mod files in a ...\data files\data files\ folder that the game doesn't find. Surely we Abandonians won't fall in that trap after all our DOS games.
But yellow boxes could be caused by dependencies of the mod on other mods that you haven't installed. Read the readme file of the mod, although sometimes it's incomplete. May mods came into being in Morrowind forums where "everybody knew" at the time that this mod was made for that other popular mod.
Installing the mods starts with un-zipping the files in the "data files" sub-folder of the Morrowind installation folder (typically "C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Morrowind\"). The only possible consideration here is if there's any overwrite.
Then you should be able to start the Morrowind launcher--the default shorcut installed in the Start menu, which doesn't launch the game outright but a menu with the options: "play", "data files", "options"... There you were supposed to go to "data files" and select/un-select the mods you want. The simplest mods are a single .ESP file, while the more complex ones are composed of a .ESM file and possibly several .ESP ones. The .ESM files are "master" files, basically on par with the official expansions Tribual.esm and Bloodmoon.esm (so you can also un-select one of both of those), and the core data file Morrowind.esm; except o course that all mods will depend on one, two or all of the Bethesda data files. The .ESP files are called "plugin" files.
This (launcher > data files) may work, specially for simple mods--including the official ones from Bethesda (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Official_Plug-ins), all of which should work without problems this way. But in complex cases a number of problems may appear, because of conflicts between arbitrary mods. Also you have no way of controlling the order in which the files are loaded, and in that case if several mods change the same thing, the last change trumps the previous ones.
There are some software utilities that can help. The most famous one seems to be Wrye Mash, which is the only I've used. It can do a number of things. First of all it can do something called "merge leveled lists", which should harmonize conflicts between some complex mods that modify the game's "leveled lists"--whatever those are. It can also control the load order. And it can fix saved games so they work with a different set of mods than the one the game was started, hopefully.
The original Wrye Mash (it was made by a guy who went by the name of Wrye) depended on Python, and a very old version at that, and I couldn't find it: the link at Wrye's website was dead. Fortunately I found a version of it someone else made, that's standalone (it has all dependencies included so you don't need to install anything else). I found it here (http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3646).
TheChosen
05-06-2012, 07:06 PM
Personally I use TesTools to solve mod-conflicts and so far it seems to work pretty well. And its easy to use too.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=utilities.detail&id=34
I solved the doubling. I hadn't installed the horse ranch properly, not sure why it affected stuff far from it; but in the ranch itself everything was doubled. The zip came with a .ESM and a .ESP, I didn't read the readme and checked both. I checked back at the tavern in Pelagiad for example, and the doubled NPC was fixed there too.
hunvagy
07-06-2012, 05:39 AM
Is not heavier than oblivion, so a 6 years old pc can run it without problem.
Actually it depends on what you set it at the very first step. I tried the 1.x last year, and it killed my X2-550 to 14 fps outside with water foam on and 15 cells distance. The 2.0 Has a slider for your rig, so could set it up to a comfortable 40 fps without any hickups. Mind you I have a 2.6 Ghz processor and 8 GB RAM, and as GPU I have a HD5750. And it is stunning. But as all Morrowind graphical mods, it is extremely CPU heavy, as the morrowind executable can't do multi threading.
Why Oblivion Sucks :sneakrete:
https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/
TotalAnarchy
08-06-2012, 08:58 PM
Every one of those reason I can turn into an argument of why Oblivion rocks. Nice going damicat. First mistake you made is deriding a game for not repeating exactly the elements of a previous game, second mistake is that you expect Dungeons & Dragons out of a TES game, third mistake is calling it dumbed down while you had problems figuring out the controls, fourth mistake is forgetting to have fun in a game.
DarthHelmet86
09-06-2012, 06:25 AM
I know people who pile on the hate of Morrowind for not being Daggerfall 2. If people don't like Oblivion that is up to them, I do. All TES games have faults, large ones at that too, but the game itself is always fun and enjoyable and that is all I ask from them. And if you want to mod Oblivion go for it, seems no one here can or wants to play Morrowind without mods either.
As far as I think without Oblivion opening up the market of TES games to a wider audience we would never have gotten Skyrim, or at least they would never of had the budget to make it as big and well as they did. Not to mention once again Shivering Isles came out with Oblivion and it has to be one of the best DLCs/Expansions ever made.
twillight
09-06-2012, 07:30 AM
Why Oblivion Sucks :sneakrete:
https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/
Actually a post like that not worth its salt.
Before even considering isntalling a game a nowdays player look up the internet for rewies and firsthand player-experiences, and according to those (s)he mades the decision about the game.
The game is buggy? Has a linearity built in? Timed? The main quest is a joke?
Well, if someone decides to have the game still, it means that person gives squat, and think able to deal with it!
For Oblivion definitly a lot of gamers decided the supposed problems means nothing to them, won't ruin their joy.
And it's not someone asked opinion wether it worth playing the game or not, right?
Eg. I recently bought Hunted: the Demon Forge despite it having some bad words like repetitve fighting and such. You know what? I wanned repetitive fighting to replace with a console-like modernlooking game my Diablo2 (and to test wether an 500MB videocard can be forgotten if I have 500GB HDD). And until now it satisfies me.
Anyone knows where I can get a better deal for Oblivion (with expansions, Game of the Year edition) than these? It's £10 on Amazon.co.UK but the shipping to Spain is half as much. I'd actually prefer a download, but in Steam it's not cheaper. There isn't a better deal in eBay either. Also in Steam there's a GOTY "Deluxe" edition in addition to the regular GOTY one, but I'm not sure what the additional content is (there's no info in Mobygames): "Fighter's Stronghold Expansion, Spell Tome Treasures, Vile Lair, Mehrune's Razor and much more."
It's not pricey, just wondering. I think I'll be exploiting Morrowind some more for a time, though. I beat the main quest last time (without expansions) but I haven't explored half of it yet, and it would be waste.
TheChosen
12-06-2012, 07:21 PM
If you can wait, Steam should have its yearly summer sale at the beginning of next month and no doubt Oblivions will be part of it too.
I can wait no problem, I still have a lot of Morrowind, and I don't plan to play very intensively. Not to mention that I have Civ5 waiting. I'll subscribe to the RSS feeds. :) And happy birthday.
A week ago I started playing a game called Skyrim, which was apparently a big thing years ago, :P and boy I am impressed. 10/10. I started just after finally finishing Oblivion, and what a huge difference.
The smith lady in Whiterun got killed by a random vampire :_( and left me money in her testament! :o
arete
05-05-2015, 02:30 PM
And then I took an arrow to the knee!
:hide:
Panthro
05-05-2015, 05:17 PM
I still haven't played Skyrim, it's been part of my backlog of games for so long now I think it's probably starting to resent me.
Dude you don't know what you are missing. OK I don't know if this kind of game is your cup of tea, and it's true The Elder Scrolls is by far my favorite RPG saga, but this is a perfectly crafted and art worthy game.
Not just the core gameplay, quests, characters, all compares favorably to any other installment in the series or other RPGs, but the ambiance, the simple but solid NPC dialogue mechanics, the first time I get suspension of disbelief in an RPG; the great scriptwriting, the ambiance is simply amazing! and there's more that you can do besides the typical core gameplay (my favorite thing is smithing, but also hunting, just exploring all the fascinating landscapes...
Here are some screenshots (not the best graphic quality due to my dated hardware):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ddadm09ata90uaz/AADiXo1ivn-TGAlFs2d-fJQia?dl=0
Is not that good honestly, is very simple and consolish, the game world is pretty amazing though.
Panthro
06-05-2015, 05:18 PM
I've always enjoyed TES games to a certain extent, even Oblivion, but they're not exactly my cup of tea (almost, but not quite).
I got bored quite quickly with the vast amount of meaningless combat in Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I'd be much happier if most of that was stripped away, and there were more parts like the Dark Brotherhood quests.
I'm sure I will get around to it eventually though! So many other games to play at the moment, I would have to stop working to be able to play them all!
Anyway the quality is higher than other games, even Morrowimd at leat as far as dialogue and side quest writing go. Oblivion was decent technically but the artists and writers who got paid for it will burn in hell. One of the things I like most is the simple but smart dialogue mechanics and the great writing make me feel like NPCs could be real people instead of "press A to talk" Ultima/JRPG characters from any other game.
bump :D
A week ago I started playing a game called Skyrim, which was apparently a big thing years ago, :P and boy I am impressed. 10/10. I started just after finally finishing Oblivion, and what a huge difference.
Following my old man habit (as happened with Morrowind and Daggerfall) of getting fatigued of these (great) bigass games and being unable to finish them in one go, dropping them for months, later picking up the save, maybe dropping and repeating this a few times until I even finish the main quest after real-life years of having started...
That time I didn't finish any big quest, but I just picked up Skyrim back again some days ago. I've finished the annoying vampire extension, advanced the main quest a lot (kicked Alduin's ass once -- how the Hell was he supposed to be able to flee combat if I knew Dragonrend? Plot hole...), become archmage, liberated Skyrim from the empire, currently trotting Solstheim (much better than in the sub-sub-par Bloodmoon). Equipment etc. maxed up... Still loving this game, and this time I can finish I think.
As slow a player as I am, I am going to need another Elder Scrolls game some day. I may even try Online, even though I've never played any online multiplayer game, specially since it appears to be a really open-ended game in the genuine Elder Scrolls spirit; and I can't wait to see the lore and scenery they have come up with for a game set in the whole of Tamriel for the first time since Arena. I only don't like from the media I've seen, that it seems to be more cartoony than previous TES games, and a lot of creatures have been introduced which were never in TES lore, but seem to come from D&D's generic monster catalog.
However what I would still really love first of all, is if I could play a remake of Daggerfall that, besides updating graphics even if only in resolution, specially fixed the issues of the original game in dungeon navigation. I know there is little or no chance since the Elder Scrolls world and lore accumulated from games so far can provide Bethesda with unlimited material to make new games. Even from fans the closest thing seems to be this dead project (http://xlengine.com/delays/), which wouldn't seem to fix the dungeon problem.
PS
Skyrim pics!
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dqdhz298w0p7csv/AADrtdyU2qDfL10lakB84_U7a?dl=0
a remake of daggerfall would be awesome!
The main problem with dungeons in Daggerfall wasn't even the auto map, but that they make no architectural sense. Many games e.g. Tomb Raider have no map and still you can find your way like in real life. In Daggerfall castle corridors and halls are laid out like random mines or caves, with arbitrary 3d space in between, such buildings could never exist.
So a good remake would mean not only remake the graphics, but also every quest dungeon map and the random dungeon generator. This isn't doable as a fan project. And Bethesda will probably keep releasing brand new games, they do have unlimited setting material to exploit, even in the continent of Tamriel alone, and some day they'll make a game in Akavir or even Atmora, and they can keep using Oblivion realms.
However Daggerfall is the game that started the whole lore. I love to re-play it despite the graphics, except the dungeons are too damn terrible. Too bad.
MrFlibble
19-02-2017, 01:14 PM
However what I would still really love first of all, is if I could play a remake of Daggerfall that, besides updating graphics even if only in resolution, specially fixed the issues of the original game in dungeon navigation. I know there is little or no chance since the Elder Scrolls world and lore accumulated from games so far can provide Bethesda with unlimited material to make new games. Even from fans the closest thing seems to be this dead project (http://xlengine.com/delays/), which wouldn't seem to fix the dungeon problem.
So a good remake would mean not only remake the graphics, but also every quest dungeon map and the random dungeon generator. This isn't doable as a fan project.
As much as I love Daggerfall I believe that to truly fix all its issues would mean to create a new game from scratch, putting to practice all the lessons learned from Daggerfall's shortcomings.
The dungeons aren't the only problem, although they probably have the most game breaking potential. Generic towns are equally randomly generated and as can easily ruin the immersion once the player notices the repetitive patterns, random quests all too often get tangled in themselves etc. etc.
However, I do believe that it is quite possible to rectify these and other problems within the framework of a fan/community project.
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