The Elder Scrolls Chapter II: Daggerfall

[MyVitalRemains]

When I mention the Elder Scrolls most of you will think of games such as Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim but chances are that only a little of you have played the amazing game known as Daggerfall.

You start off the game with a map of "The Empire of Tamriel." In order to choose your class you have to click on one of the provinces and then a brief description of the race will pop-up. After choosing your race you can choose a class in three ways, by 1) choosing from the selected classes, 2) taking a quiz determining which class is best for you, and by 3) creating a custom-class. After doing this you notice that this game (like many role-playing games) is heavily involved with stats, you choose, from a limited number of points, which of them you uprage. After dealing with the character-creation mumbo-jumbo you are commanded by the emperor to free the ghost of the late King Lysandus (the former king of Daggerfall) and too find out what happened a certain letter that was sent by him. After this you are then released into the open world of The Elder Scrolls Chapter II: Daggerfall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niU1bRqxrIU

DAGGERFALL PROS:
Open-world and Exploration
If you have ever played an Elder Scrolls game you know that exploration is key to the experience, but if you have ever played Daggerfall you know that exploration is very important to the game. After going through the first dungeon you notice that there is a world of 15,000 towns, cities, villages, and dungeons along with a world around 487,000 km squared. Although this is achieved via randomly generated land between cities, towns, dungeons, etc, it is still amazing to think of a game of this scale. Not only this but no matter where you go you'll find quests to do, things to kill, and music to captivate you.

DAT MUSIC
I don't know what it is about the music in this game, but it causes the correct emotions to stir within me at the right time. In the dungeons I feel erie and unsure of things, while exploring I feel like an epic traveller, and while in the temple I feel spiritual. The only problem with the music I found was the wretched shop music... well it wasn't that bad, it just doesn't transition well. While I am in a city exploring and what not, I suddenly hear this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8EaL1Zm6w). I mean it does make me feel happy and stuff, but it just doesn't transition well.

THEY SEE ME LOOTIN', THEY HATING
In this game there are a lot of items for you to find, magical clothes, books, potions, ingredients, weapons, crystals, and SO MUCH MORE. Hopefully you have the weight capacity for all of this or if you are rich - a wagon!

DAGGERFALL CONS:
Stuck in the Labyrinth
Do not be fooled by the first dungeon, most dungeons in this game are pretty much just mazes. At times you may go through so many forks in the dungeon that you'll get lost. You frequently have to find yourself looking at the map (which takes some time getting useful) to find places that you haven't explored. If you are in a very labyrinthine dungeon you'll find yourself getting frustrated and you may even regret doing the mission altogether. Although most dungeons (if not all) in this game have a bit of labyrinth in them, you may, at times, find out that some things are relatively easy to find. The maze-like levels in this game aren't always negative, they may at times be very rewarding.

1-Dimension Characters
I found myself getting bored (not at the game) but at the characters in this game. Although they do have a back-story, I still don't get to know the characters in this game so well. Whether they are sarcastic or not, whether they are calm or very hyperactive. Usually in this game you are just giving a huge textwall to read that has the character telling you to do something. Although I do guess that this is the main disadvantage of a game of such scale.

BUGZILLA
Although this game has been patched... it is still filled with a lot of bugs. The may even crawl on you, IN THE REAL WORLD!

OVERALL
Overall this game is amazing. The dungeons to crawl, the quests to do, the magic to learn (and create), the guilds to join, the daedra to kill. All of these things make this game amazing for those who are willing to put its flaws aside. If you love computer role-playing games and like exploration, then this game is a must download.
8.0/10

[TheChosen]

Thats pretty much Daggerfall in a nutshell.

I have mixed feelings about the dungeons. They're so cool and deep and even if they're randomly build out of set of specific blocks they look great. But they're so overly large and confusing that right after you finish the quest part of it, you'll immediately stop caring and head straight to exit....provided that you havent got lost and already given up on doing the quest in the first place.

And yeah, characters are almost literally a cardboard cut-outs that offer quest, information and services. Some of the notable one's actually have more detailed backstory, which can be found in books and sequels. For example, the Prince in the dining hall of Castle Daggerfall? Thats the future king of Morrowind as seen in Mournhold expansion pack.

[MyVitalRemains]

Thats pretty much Daggerfall in a nutshell.

I have mixed feelings about the dungeons. They're so cool and deep and even if they're randomly build out of set of specific blocks they look great. But they're so overly large and confusing that right after you finish the quest part of it, you'll immediately stop caring and head straight to exit....provided that you havent got lost and already given up on doing the quest in the first place.

And yeah, characters are almost literally a cardboard cut-outs that offer quest, information and services. Some of the notable one's actually have more detailed backstory, which can be found in books and sequels. For example, the Prince in the dining hall of Castle Daggerfall? Thats the future king of Morrowind as seen in Mournhold expansion pack.
At times I even felt like some of the NPCs had more emotion than the actual characters. Thankfully these problems that I mentioned are fixed in later games (maybe except the bugs).

[TotalAnarchy]

It's pretty much a trend - the tavern/shop music in all of the existent CRPGs is horrible. That applies to Neverwinter Nights, to Baldur's Gate, to Divine Divinity, and now I know it does to Daggerfall as well.

[Japo]

I agree about the dungeons, but the only thing wrong about them is that the innovative 3D maps would have been a good idea if resolution were higher than 320x200. At that low resolution those maps are too hard to look at, and good old 2D maps with levels like in Arena would have been better. Also the buildings don't make architectural sense (unlike Arena): even castles and such are like caverns, passages with halls but a lot of vacuum space outside.

On the NPCs' lack of individuality outside quest giving (so common in RPGs) I have a funny image from Daggerfall:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_017.png

And do I hate magic:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_0062.png http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_000.png

PS A bad joke:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_025.png

[MyVitalRemains]

I agree about the dungeons, but the only thing wrong about them is that the innovative 3D maps would have been a good idea if resolution were higher than 320x200. At that low resolution those maps are too hard to look at, and good old 2D maps with levels like in Arena would have been better. Also the buildings don't make architectural sense (unlike Arena): even castles and such are like caverns, passages with halls but a lot of vacuum space outside.

On the NPCs' lack of individuality outside quest giving (so common in RPGs) I have a funny image from Daggerfall:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_017.png

And do I hate magic:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_0062.png http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_000.png

PS A bad joke:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_025.png
Another good thing about Daggerfall is the amount naked females there are! :gigity:

[Japo]

Another good thing about Daggerfall is the amount naked females there are! :gigity:
Case in point:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_033.png

[MyVitalRemains]

Case in point:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/japofran/games/Elder%20Scrolls%202%20Daggerfall/fall_033.png
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/201/807/1145.jpg

[RRS]

Stuck in the Labyrinth
Dungeons in Daggerfall are very tricky. I've found that the anchor/recall spell can save your day (and player's nerves), as you can teleport back to exit, Diablo-style, presto!

It's pretty much a trend - the tavern/shop music in all of the existent CRPGs is horrible. That applies to Neverwinter Nights, to Baldur's Gate, to Divine Divinity, and now I know it does to Daggerfall as well.
My dear European friend - then how do you imagine music played by medieval minstrels? Because that's what you'd expect in a tavern. Maybe a choir of drunk men, too...

[MyVitalRemains]

Dungeons in Daggerfall are very tricky. I've found that the anchor/recall spell can save your day (and player's nerves), as you can teleport back to exit, Diablo-style, presto!

I just save with different slots. One in the entrance and one for dungeon crawling.

[yoga]

I just save with different slots. One in the entrance and one for dungeon crawling.
:3:
This game is nice.
But if you do not mind the maps are ..let say..little confusing.
And cave labyrinths make me very upset.

For me Arena is better game in this saga.

brave

[MyVitalRemains]

:3:
This game is nice.
But if you do not mind the maps are ..let say..little confusing.
And cave labyrinths make me very upset.

For me Arena is better game in this saga.

brave
I should get Arena.

[Japo]

Most people think Daggerfall is better (even if it's understandable since Arena is older), although they think Arena is damn good too. I do, for example. But again I agree that dungeon maps in Daggerfall are impossible and they take quite some joy out of crawling. And Yoga isn't the only one who prefers Arena over Daggerfall, of course.

Do get Arena (from here, or it's free from ElderScrolls.com too).

[hunvagy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Ij76MxZ7A&feature=plcp Umm tavern music bad? Only if you don't use MIDI for music.

[yoga]

Most people think Daggerfall is better (even if it's understandable since Arena is older), although they think Arena is damn good too. I do, for example. But again I agree that dungeon maps in Daggerfall are impossible and they take quite some joy out of crawling. And Yoga isn't the only one who prefers Arena over Daggerfall, of course.

Do get Arena (from here, or it's free from ElderScrolls.com too).

:smile2:
Thank You, dear amigo Japo
for good analysis and word.

yoga

May I ask You very politely what do You think about the next, third game of same game producer.
Gracias

[TheChosen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Ij76MxZ7A&feature=plcp Umm tavern music bad? Only if you don't use MIDI for music.

Great. You found the one I was looking for. I think there was a third one too.

The first one is bit of awful, especially with the right soundcard settings, there's some horrible screeching.

At least they got it right on Skyrim

C2OVlVn73pQ

Anyway, my quick overall view of the series: While Arena is not a bad game, it really shows its age. There's all kinds of bland and overall its very generic. And repetitive.

And while I think Daggerfall is my favorite part of the series, Morrowind is a fantastic game too, as are Oblivion and Skyrim (although I havent played those yet, I think the overall opinion of those is worth believing). While the world seems to get smaller and smaller, it gets more interesting and detailed. Arena and Daggerfall had lands as big as continents but its all filled with clones of cardboard citizen. Morrowind just gives you an island with 10 to something towns, but at least they all feel more fleshed out. Its random computer-generated world vs designers working with a level editor. Both techniques actually work well and give different kind of results (good and bad) and overall, its all playable if you give it a change.

[Japo]

May I ask You very politely what do You think about the next, third game of same game producer.
Gracias
I liked Morrowind a lot too, although I didn't finish it; some day I'll take up the saved game again. I'd say it's easier to become über-powerful in Morrowind compared to Arena or Daggerfall, what with alchemy and all. It's also the first TES game with resolution higher than 320x200, that's good. I haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim.

[MyVitalRemains]

I haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim.
I recommend Skyrim. It, Daggerfall, and Arena are the only Elder Scrolls games that I have ever played. Just one piece of advice, if you are playing Skyrim, put the difficulty level masterful, it makes the game more fun and difficult.

[hunvagy]

I recommend Skyrim. It, Daggerfall, and Arena are the only Elder Scrolls games that I have ever played. Just one piece of advice, if you are playing Skyrim, put the difficulty level masterful, it makes the game more fun and difficult.

Then you're missing out on the best one. Morrowind is hands down the winner from the 5 TES games (not counting the spinoffs, ofc).

[MyVitalRemains]

Then you're missing out on the best one. Morrowind is hands down the winner from the 5 TES games (not counting the spinoffs, ofc).
I'll try to get Morrowind and Oblivion if I have the money. Although I'll be sure to get the optical disc versions and not the Steam versions, mainly because I want to play offline.

[MrFlibble]

Daggerfall has quite a few weird little things like a faction member/affiliate that says s/he knows nothing about that faction (I think same things may happen if you ask for directions, although it is kind of strange to ask a shopkeeper, for example, for the directions to the same shop you're in, but anyway), most of which probably come from too much content being dependent on randomization. This is noticeable with both NPC dialogues (I've observed some NPCs randomly react oddly, for example telling the player not to talk down to them when addressed in the "Polite" mode) and quests. In general, I'd say I have the impression of the game being somewhat half-baked in that a) it is very obvious that many more features were planned but some got cut or were never completed along the way and b) the game shows different styles and design attitudes that come from different periods during its development. The latter, for example, manifests itself in the lack of consistency in graphics and art: on one hand, there are hand-drawn sprites for most static characters, while monsters and moving NPCs/opponents are pre-rendered 3D models; on top of that, different character images of both types vary in sizes, resulting in a visible difference in detail, especially in close-up view. There are also some minor but very annoying graphical errors and glitches here and there, in characters' clothing, armour and other things.

Random dungeons are another matter. At first, they can be very confusing altogether, but very soon it becomes obvious that they are made of pre-set segments that are more or less easy to familiarized with. This fact, however, has both positive and negative sides: once you see a familiar part (even if wall textures are different), it's pretty easy to navigate, however the pre-set segments themselves are pieced together in a random pattern, so you may never know where you find yourself next. After some time, dungeons become familiar enough to feel repetitive, yet random and unpredictable enough to get annoying (especially on closely timed quests).

This is not to say that Daggerfall isn't an enjoyable game. It is. But it could have probably been a lot better if the developers spent more time on polishing its mechanics. Overall, I find the review (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/dagger.htm) of the game by Theodor Lauppert pretty insightful:
I have made the experience that the games I love most are all what I call "if only" games. Sure, they are good, enjoyable, but they could be so much better if only…

Not only is Daggerfall no exception, it is actually the best example. Technically, it is not even a good game. This huge world not only lacks variance, it is illogical, inconsistent, and everywhere the game mechanics that should be hidden are plain to see.

An important aspect of gameplay are the randomly generated quests you can get from guilds, merchants, and nobles. They get repetitive quick, and the few that are actually interesting sub-stories are often buggy beyond playability. Dungeons quite obviously never served any purpose but being dungeons in a role-playing game. Travelling overland you only have the choice between walking/riding right through the countryside, which is beautiful but difficult because there are no roads and you will probably miss your destination, or "fast travel," which deprives you of any random encounters and completely takes away any feeling of distance. You can climb over city walls right in front of the guards, but resting in town is regarded as a serious crime. The houses you can buy are practically useless—all you can do in them is rest and drop stuff on the floor,—and the ship, though useful, does not behave even remotely like a ship and is, unless you set your own rules, mainly an official cheat.

But despite it all, the game can keep you playing for hours, days, months. Why? I guess it is simply this fascination of living in a virtual world. It is the basic concept that, even if not executed well, makes this game unique and well worth playing.

[Japo]

I've observed some NPCs randomly react oddly, for example telling the player not to talk down to them when addressed in the "Polite" mode

That's because you failed your Etiquette skill check. It could be a logical reaction from someone whom you're addressing in an inappropriately pedantic tone for example. By speaking in a polite or blunt tone you can get a more favorable reaction (depending on whom you talk to), if you pass the skill check; but if you don't you get a more unfavorable reaction than if you had used a normal tone. Overall, pretty useless.

[MrFlibble]

That's because you failed your Etiquette skill check. It could be a logical reaction from someone whom you're addressing in an inappropriately pedantic tone for example. By speaking in a polite or blunt tone you can get a more favorable reaction (depending on whom you talk to), if you pass the skill check; but if you don't you get a more unfavorable reaction than if you had used a normal tone. Overall, pretty useless.
I've also thought about that being a game feature :) It's still a bit weird that someone should consider politeness as "talking down to them", but I guess those peasants and townsfolk just don't know manners :shifty:

Speaking about weirdness, I remember a merchant quest where I had to deliver a false letter; in that particular case, a love-letter from a girl to her fiancee had to be replaced with hate mail. During the quest, I had the options to ask people around for the whereabouts of both the girl and her addressee, and I indeed found them out. However, I could not tell them about the false letter (I decided that completing the original quest and replacing the letter was such a bad thing to do), so finding them was pretty useless. The quest description at UESP Wiki (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Postman) also does not mention the possibility of revealing the intents of your employer to the people involved either.

[Japo]

I think I read this in the game manual--if it wasn't on the UESP wiki. Also both skills aren't equally appropriate: polite/etiquette improves nobles' reactions, and blunt/streetwise the commoners'. It's probably not impossible to get a benefit from talking in the wrong tone to a person, if you're lucky, but if you try to talk politely to a commoner you're liable to get just that result.

About the quest you can't be sure that it's a feature instead of a bug, what will how bugged the game is, in particular in that area.