SOPA Law

[catchaserguns]

Her in the USA our congress may pas an anti-piracy law called SOPA. It will block certain sites from the web here in the United States. Especially abandonware sites like this one. I hope it doesn't pass but I'm afraid it will. It will be voted on in January. I don't want to lose this site:cry:

[The Fifth Horseman]

They've been running that game for ~2 years by now. The name changes - COICA, Protect IP, SOPA, OPEN and so on - but the entire point is basically the same: They want control over what their citizens can access on the net.
This undead abomination of a law needs to be put down, but their politicians are adamant about keeping it alive.

[DarthHelmet86]

The last time it was around Obama said he would veto it. This kind of nonsense is what happens when you let companies make "donations" and "contributions" to politicians. They stop caring about the people and just care about where the money for the next run is coming from.

Google is dead set against it, Microsoft pulled their support and a few other companies have made their opposition known. If it all goes pear shaped big companies will be moving their hosting out of the US. Google would be leaving the US and that means Youtube as well. But it does lead a sad precedent for other countries, hopefully there are still a few people left in American politics willing to stand up for common sense and listen to the people that vote for them not just the people throwing money at them.

Also once again the "PIRACY IS EVIL!!111" brigade is out quoting made up statistics and facts. Stuff like piracy steals more money then what the whole industry makes, how you can even qualify how much money you are losing when people aren't buying your product or why baffles me. But piracy is the easy target, it is illegal and is easy to blame for people not buying your product rather than admitting that you have a crap product that people don't want to buy.

[GTX2GvO]

It will block certain sites from the web here in the United States.

Actually with the hold the USA has on the DNS systems etc. they simply wouldn't just block the sites for US citizens.

anything ending with .com .org .net (and some more) would end up blocked WORLDWIDE cause the US has control over the damn backbone.

[DarthHelmet86]

From what I understand GTX the blocking will be done by the ISP, after a company complains about a website the American government can force American ISPs to refuse access to that site. (People have been pointing out that this presents problems with the way internet browsers check if a site is secure and could lead to phoney websites being able to work easier.) So if you aren't using a American ISP there should be no blocking, unless the company complaining sues the server host and gets it removed...something they can already do.

[arete]

I wonder if Obama would physically survive trying some sort of lobbying reform. It's depressing.

If a law is unconstitutional, how do they think they'll pass it? They make use of freedom of speech to push their consistently creepier pron empires, but try to quash actual political debate and information sharing because Australia raped Sweden!!! Good grief. Occupy movements should arm themselves with bullshit detectors and surround Congress with their beeping.

[Expack2]

Occupy movements should arm themselves with bullshit detectors and surround Congress with their beeping.Hmm...that sounds like an interesting proposition. Get Penn & Teller behind it and you've got it made! (In case you're puzzled why I said Penn & Teller should be backing this odd but potentially-effective protest, they once had a show on TV called Penn & Teller's Bullshit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PennAndTellerBullshit) where they go after bull&^*$ claims and stuff.)

[Fruit Pie Jones]

Occupy movements should arm themselves with bullshit detectors and surround Congress with their beeping.
The only problem with that is that the Occupants themselves would set off the detectors as much as Congress would. I'm really getting tired of our legislators over here, though. They talk and talk and talk and never seem to accomplish one damn thing. Then they talk about whose fault it was that nothing was accomplished. For this reason alone I don't think SOPA has a chance of being passed, and I hope I'm right. I'm no fan of outright piracy, but legislation like SOPA isn't a reasonable way to combat it.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about America controlling DNS. It appears (http://www.root-servers.org/) that Europe controls significantly more of the root servers than the US does. Heck, even Iceland gets one!

[catchaserguns]

I saw a video on Youtube saying the companies that support SOPA were the same technologies who invented the file-sharing programs. Here is the link to the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc&feature=g-logo&context=G24888fcFOAAAAAAAGAA. You might want to check it out.

[arete]

...You shouldn't believe everything you see on the internets.

Also, read more books. Like Homer's Odyssey maybe, or Isaac Asimov. Kids today. :grandma:

*distant scream of Get Off My Lawn!!! fading into the distance*

[Antifederalist]

The last time it was around Obama said he would veto it. This kind of nonsense is what happens when you let companies make "donations" and "contributions" to politicians. They stop caring about the people and just care about where the money for the next run is coming from.

Google is dead set against it, Microsoft pulled their support and a few other companies have made their opposition known. If it all goes pear shaped big companies will be moving their hosting out of the US. Google would be leaving the US and that means Youtube as well. But it does lead a sad precedent for other countries, hopefully there are still a few people left in American politics willing to stand up for common sense and listen to the people that vote for them not just the people throwing money at them.

Also once again the "PIRACY IS EVIL!!111" brigade is out quoting made up statistics and facts. Stuff like piracy steals more money then what the whole industry makes, how you can even qualify how much money you are losing when people aren't buying your product or why baffles me. But piracy is the easy target, it is illegal and is easy to blame for people not buying your product rather than admitting that you have a crap product that people don't want to buy.
I hope this doesn't pass, but if Congress passes it, then Obama will sign it into law:( Never believe a word he says.

Anyway, Happy Holidays to all:)

[DarthHelmet86]

I believe Obama as much as I do any other politician or any other person I don't know in real life.

Anyway the bill discussion has been put off to the new year, so congress was blocked up talking about this drivel rather then things that might help America. One more reason it is a load of bollocks.

[hiraghm]

Why would Obama even try any form of lobbying reform? He's one of the biggest 'crony capitalists' out there. Someone said this stuff has been around for about 2 years... the Democrats controlled Congress from 2007-2011; they still control the Senate and have had the White House since 2009. It's not the eeevil corporations that are to blame. It's people who go into government with a desire to social engineer who are to blame.
Look at the Solyndra debacle, the Chevy Volt (a $250k car you can get for only $40k of your own money). The ban on normal lightbulbs. Obamacare's health insurance mandate. The newly formed Consumer Financial Protection agency. It isn't eeevil corporations who want to social engineer the world; it's the corruptocrats and socialists in government who do.

The Congress can pass all kinds of unConstitutional bills; it's up to the Supreme Court to knock them down. I don't like it either; I think the Supremes should have to review every law for Constitutionality, before it becomes law.

But, the Obama administration circumvents even this, by granting legislative power to regulatory agencies. He just made a recess appointment to that abomination of an agency... when Congress was not in recess. And his own party controls the Senate that would have to "advise and consent" on the appointment!

Lobbyists aren't the problem. Corrupt politicians (like Obama and too many lifetime Congresscritters) are. You want to fight this kind of thing? Vote against incumbents in Congress. Don't support the party favorites (like, in the current Presidential election, Romney or Gingrich). Nobody needs to hold office for the lifetimes these people do, and lifetime positions were not what the Founding Fathers had in mind for them.

I wonder if Obama would physically survive trying some sort of lobbying reform. It's depressing.

If a law is unconstitutional, how do they think they'll pass it? They make use of freedom of speech to push their consistently creepier pron empires, but try to quash actual political debate and information sharing because Australia raped Sweden!!! Good grief. Occupy movements should arm themselves with bullshit detectors and surround Congress with their beeping.

[DarthHelmet86]

^^^Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha.

That is all. Oh no wait one of these too :picard:

The whole American system is simply corrupt for one reason only...lobbyists. Legalised bribery in it's purest form. Oh and if you don't like socialism better get rid of that Army and those police, no more roads for you no going to a public school or a private school that gets tax money as well. I could go into a long discussion about how nearly everything you have said is exaggerated misinformation or just out right lies but this isn't a political forum if you want to argue that go find some site that caters to your tastes. Plus this discussion is doubly not about politics but about the SOPA law, a law being pushed by lobbyists.

[hiraghm]

^^^Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha.

That is all. Oh no wait one of these too :picard:

The whole American system is simply corrupt for one reason only...lobbyists. Legalised bribery in it's purest form. Oh and if you don't like socialism better get rid of that Army and those police, no more roads for you no going to a public school or a private school that gets tax money as well. I could go into a long discussion about how nearly everything you have said is exaggerated misinformation or just out right lies but this isn't a political forum if you want to argue that go find some site that caters to your tastes. Plus this discussion is doubly not about politics but about the SOPA law, a law being pushed by lobbyists.

Lobbyists can't bribe politicians who won't be bribed; it's that simple. SOPA is just a variation on the grab for control of the internet by the SOCIALISTS in government. You can't talk about law, particularly SOPA, w/o bringing politics into it, because that's what it's about.

A lot of us would like to get rid of that army; we're not supposed to have a standing army. We don't need socialism for roads, police or firefighters, and we SURE as hell don't need "public" education, and no, private schools shouldn't get tax dollars either.

We have a government, and have had for some time, whose members think it's their job to make America better; to make people better. The Consumer Financial Protection agency is an example of this nonsense. They stick their noses in and regulate something, then when the regulations don't work out (due to lack of enforcement, idiocy in policy, lack of need for regulation), they try to apply MORE regulation. A long time ago I was taught that there's no such thing as perfect software protection; so long as you want someone to be able to run your software, someone else will be able to hack it. Likewise, there's no perfect regulation; so long as you want people to engage in an activity, some will find ways to do it profitably, regardless of your regulation.

The internet has managed for two decades without regulation. So why do we need regulation in the form of SOPA now?

If those "lobbyists" you decry didn't A) know they could buy legislation and regulation and B) weren't convinced it was a better way to make money than by competing with better products at lower prices, they wouldn't be backing SOPA. Again, the problem is corrupt politicians, not people trying to make money.

[Lulu_Jane]

Well... At least we can all agree that SOPA is A Bad Thing.

The rest of this I'm not touching with a ten foot pole :)

[TheChosen]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/01/13/obama-administration-responds-we-people-petitions-sopa-and-online-piracy

And they respond in a good way. Guess there's light at the end of the tunnel.

[Japo]

Well, what they're saying is that they're open to "hearing ideas" (through what channel?), but that they want one or more of the already proposed laws or similar ones to pass.

[The Fifth Horseman]

http://torrentfreak.com/us-threatened-to-blacklist-spain-for-not-implementing-site-blocking-law-120105/

[DarthHelmet86]

A lot of the backing down seem to be about the ability to force American ISPs to block DNS servers, since it is not effective and lowers internet security for real users. But the RIAA and some others still seem to think this is the only way to go, as well as blocking search engines from showing these sites. For some reason they think this will block people from finding these sites...once again showing that the people pushing for this have little understanding of the internet and no respect for the people who actually buy their product.

On that Spain thing...come on America get your government in line, it is not cool to do crap like that. Sneaky moves to try and force something onto another population is in no way Democratic nor spreading it. Show that you don't like it, send a letter or email to your representative and tell them to cut it out and if they wont don't vote for them.

[saibot216]

Looks like SOPA got shut down:
http://www.examiner.com/computers-in-denver/house-kills-sopa

[Japo]

Looks like SOPA got shut down:
http://www.examiner.com/computers-in-denver/house-kills-sopa
In the comments to that article they claim that the SOPA isn't dead for good. And of course even if and when it were, they will keep drafting new laws until they succeed at catching the public with their guard down.

The funny thing is that the US government does pressure foreign governments to pass tougher laws than what they manage to pass by the Congress at home. Well anyway, the pressure doesn't negate the fact that it's the lawmakers in those countries who pass the laws, and either the public's more apathetic in those countries, or the mechanisms for the public oversight of the political caste are poorer. My experience here in Spain makes me lean towards the second thesis.

[Lulu_Jane]

Wikipedia has announced it will be joining the Jan. 18 web blackout protesting SOPA and PIPA.

Comedy response: Tucows (holy crap, Tucows still exists) will be taking part in the blackout too.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/#!/rupertmurdoch/status/158317988284596224 (https://twitter.com/#%21/rupertmurdoch/status/158317988284596224) Murdoch is on our side... This makes me so conflicted.

[DarthHelmet86]

I would say we should turn off our downloads...but us being online is more of a Take That then blacking the site out.

[Lulu_Jane]

heh good point :D

[Japo]

The Motion Picture Association of America (http://mpaa.org/) has issued a harsh statement about the blackout:

http://blog.mpaa.org/BlogOS/post/2012/01/17/Senator-Dodd-On-Troubling-Developments-of-Blackout-Day-.aspx
by Senator Chris Dodd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd)

Only days after the White House and chief sponsors of the legislation responded to the major concern expressed by opponents and then called for all parties to work cooperatively together, some technology business interests are resorting to stunts that punish their users or turn them into their corporate pawns, rather than coming to the table to find solutions to a problem that all now seem to agree is very real and damaging.

It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information and use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. It’s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users in order to further their corporate interests.

A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals. It is our hope that the White House and the Congress will call on those who intend to stage this “blackout” to stop the hyperbole and PR stunts and engage in meaningful efforts to combat piracy.

Gettysburg Address, get out of my lane #irony

[DarthHelmet86]

They really seem to think that if they keep yelling PIRACY that everyone will just go "Oh that's a great cause let us just ignore that their ideas are stupid and won't work cause it is all to stop piracy.". I learned as a kid that some of the most horrible things ever were done by people with the best intentions of stopping some other great evil, I guess this people never learned from history at all.

And the irony in that quote is just so damn huge, how dare they do what they want with their free market rights, they aren't agreeing with us that makes them evil.

[Red Fortress]

Apparently SOPA hasn't been :picard: shelved after all, only delayed until February.

Stop Online Piracy Act Markup to Resume in February

Washington, D.C. — House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) today said that he expects the Committee to continue its markup of the Stop Online Piracy Act in February.

Chairman Smith: "To enact legislation that protects consumers, businesses and jobs from foreign thieves who steal America's intellectual property, we will continue to bring together industry representatives and Members to find ways to combat online piracy.

“Due to the Republican and Democratic retreats taking place over the next two weeks, markup of the Stop Online Piracy Act is expected to resume in February.

“I am committed to continuing to work with my colleagues in the House and Senate to send a bipartisan bill to the White House that saves American jobs and protects intellectual property."



http://judiciary.house.gov/news/01172012.html

[JoM]

Apparently SOPA hasn't been :picard: shelved after all, only delayed until February.



http://judiciary.house.gov/news/01172012.html

Still, having it postponed until February allows a little more time for the anti-SOPA lobby to try their best. I'm sure that what Wikipedia did today will make more people aware than ever.

[Lulu_Jane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16623831

Good news for now.

[jhonlars]

1> If the Us government pass this law and they are going to pass it in two or three days, all the piracy sites will be banned and the dangerous thing is the Congress is involving Social networks sites too in to this bill.

2> And my second point of view this is that all those sites which are hosted in US and gives quite good revenue to US government all of those sites can change their hosting to other countries because of this law.

Is there US government is thinking about this money loss.

[TheChosen]

"The OPEN Act secures two fundamental principles. First, Americans have a right to benefit from what they've created. And second, Americans have a right to an open internet. Our duty is to protect these rights. That's why congressional Republicans and Democrats came together to write the OPEN Act."

A reasonable bill that aims for both?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/censorship-foes-roll-out-antipiracy-plan-say-stop-butchering-the-internet.ars

http://www.keepthewebopen.com/

[DarthHelmet86]

Seems like a better idea, but it has it's flaws. But it does prove one thing, the MPAA and RIAA don't give a crap about due process they would rather just be able to control the internet and not have to deal with actually defending their copyright and proving that others are actually stealing from them.

[TheChosen]

So, PIPA hearing was moved, SOPA has now been shelved and finally, ESA has dropped its support. They might still come back, but for now, its over.

Thank god.

[Eagle of Fire]

Seems like a better idea, but it has it's flaws. But it does prove one thing, the MPAA and RIAA don't give a crap about due process they would rather just be able to control the internet and not have to deal with actually defending their copyright and proving that others are actually stealing from them.
Actually, they'd rather be able to control everything and has nothing to do with the Internet in particular except that it is a new territory full of opportunities and which look like an easy target because it is not really defendable with normal laws as we are dealing here with non material products while normal laws are written in such a way that only material products are protected.

Also... That's pretty basic strategy for any serious company.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Seems like a better idea, but it has it's flaws. But it does prove one thing, the MPAA and RIAA don't give a crap about due process they would rather just be able to control the internet and not have to deal with actually defending their copyright and proving that others are actually stealing from them.That, and the fact both they AND a lot of their supporters are happily breaking copyrights. It's just their own they take offense to.