Ubisoft: DRM Success , PC Sales Drop, Blames Piracy...

[Red Fortress]

Ubisoft, piracy, and the death of reason (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason/)

Just read this article on PC Gamer, not I don't know where to :omg: laugh or rage...

Some Quotes:
Recently, Ubisoft called its “always-on” DRM a success, claiming “a clear reduction in piracy.”

In terms of actual sales, however, the results seem decidedly mixed. Michael Pachter told Eurogamer that Ubisoft’s “PC game sales are down 90% without a corresponding lift in console sales.

Pachter framed the problem in terms of piracy, as I’m sure Ubisoft frames the problem, but a 90% decline in PC sales is a catastrophic number. If piracy were the problem, then their “successful” DRM policy should have prevented such a free-fall.”

A bit later on...

Ubisoft is committed to blaming piracy. It’s become an emotional issue. Here’s what the developer of Ubisoft’s Driver: San Francisco said before the game came out: “It’s difficult to get away from the fact that as a developer, as somebody who puts their blood, sweat and tears into this thing… And from the publisher’s point of view, which invests tens and tens and tens of millions into a product – by the time you’ve got marketing, a hundred million – that piracy on the PC is utterly unbelievable.”

[TotalAnarchy]

Posting just to point out Michael Pachter is not an Ubisoft official.

[Lulu_Jane]

I was actually saying yesterday to someone that I would never buy Ubisoft PC releases specifically because of their insane DRM, so yeah I guess they were successful in completely turning me off them. Good work Ubisoft!

To be clear, I threw lots of disposable income towards them via PS3 releases, but now I no longer own a console I've no desire to bother with them.

[TotalAnarchy]

I was actually saying yesterday to someone that I would never buy Ubisoft PC releases specifically because of their insane DRM, so yeah I guess they were successful in completely turning me off them. Good work Ubisoft!

To be clear, I threw lots of disposable income towards them via PS3 releases, but now I no longer own a console I've no desire to bother with them.

Typical, since you're also against playing browser games. :p

[Eagle of Fire]

Wow. It really shows the sad state of modern gaming if PC Gamer, which I consider (de?)evolved in the last few years as an incredible fort holder of "we do good reviews of games who pay us to do it", actually publish such articles.

Or maybe they simply don't like Ubisoft and they decided to bash them. That would be more likely actually.

[Lulu_Jane]

TA, I'm not against browser games, you weirdo. People can play games by jamming sticks into their eardrums if they like. If they enjoy it, good on them :)

[Smiling Spectre]

Funny. Steam is trived with new games coming out, three per week, indy games are blooming, sharewares are coming out one-two per day for every gaming portal, every major publisher struggles to have it's own distribution service, and at the same time Ubisoft have 90% decline. Good work, Ubisoft!

[Lulu_Jane]

That's a pretty damning and good point right there.

I wonder if they're making up the shortfall with console sales, because otherwise it's just crazy.

[DarthHelmet86]

It would seem that Ubisoft have missed the point and just aren't listening to the gamers. As per the norm at the moment blaming piracy seems to be the easy thing to do rather then looking at your own actions and seeing the flaws in them.

High DRM leads to people not buying the game, they don't like being suspected of being a pirate after paying for the game. However they still want to play the game and will find it cracked and the DRM removed not long after the game is out. Want to lower piracy treat gamers like valued customers and they will buy your game. They might pirate it too but there are always going to be pirates no matter what you do.

Pratcher is pointing out the flaw in their logic, not agreeing with them. He is saying that if they are blaming it on piracy then their so called successful DRM would have stopped the piracy. So either it isn't pirates or their DRM is not successful. The developer is pulling the we spent our blood and money making this game for them then they pirate it guilt trip tactic. And it fails due to the reason why people pirate the game not being cause they don't want to pay for it but rather that they feel the company has no respect or trust in them.

[The Fifth Horseman]

How many of the people who pirated those games would have bought them in the first place? I'm betting just as few as would have bought them after pirating.

[TotalAnarchy]

I think you guys are missing the point by one million light years. Ubisoft specifically reiterated that they will keep focusing on consoles. Secondly, why do you believe Pachter? He's a financial analyst, and you don't really trust those. To give you an example, here's the percentage of PC software sales by year from the total of Ubisoft sales:

2007-2008: 7%
2008-2009: 9%
2009-2010: 8%
2010-2011: 4%

So at first sight, the PC would lose 50% of its sales compared to 2009-2010... But wait there's more! In 2009-2010, Ubisoft's sales represented 870,954,000 euros, while in 2010-2011 - 1,038,826,000 euros, which means a 19% increase. Now let's count how many euros the PC takes out of that: in 2009-2010, PC sales (8%) were around 70,000,000 euros, while in 2010-2011 (4%) - 42,000,000 euros. The reduction is not even close to 90%, it's only 25%.

But screw these stupid numbers. Who cares about them? You know what's really hilarious? The fact that Ubisoft never stopped using DRMs. Think about it. Before 2006 it was Starforce, after that came Tages, and now it's their own DRM. And thus I ask where is the logic behind all this? Starforce and Tages are even more draconic DRMs than the current one. Why would sales go down now that they introduced the Always-Online DRM when millions of others are already playing online games, which are already DRMs in their own way?

[DarthHelmet86]

People don't see it like that TA. The older DRMs upset people as well, but always online upsets people who don't or can't get internet connections. And people who have very slow internet connections. And there are still plenty of places even in America that have issues getting broadband.

And I would guess more of those people who pirated would have brought it with a change to the DRM. I don't believe the 90 percent loss of sales but I do trust his point. Either the loss (any loss they are having that is) is from pirates and their DRM doesn't work or pirates are not the major factor and Ubisoft is barking up the wrong tree.

[Expack2]

Related to this topic is a curious bit of research highlighted in this featured Member Blog (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EZacharyKnight/20111021/8709/New_Research_Brings_Much_Needed_Objectivity_To_Gam e_Piracy_Numbers.php) from gaming industry website Gamasutra. The original research findings can be found in this PDF (http://openarchive.cbs.dk/bitstream/handle/10398/8299/tech_report_v1.pdf?sequence=1). (On a side note, you'll see the author has to keep pointing out that this is the most objective piece of piracy research he's found, even though it clearly doesn't cover piracy channels other than BitTorrent).

An interesting correlation which is made by the above-linked research is that the better a game's Metacritic score, the more unique peers (e.g. not repeat peers) download the game. Ergo, the better-received a game is, the more people pirate it.

[TheChosen]

Pachter the kind of guy who goes saying every other week that Nintendo is doomed, so I wouldnt really take him seriously.

Ubisoft cant seem to handle their DRM though. Even worse was when their servers went down and no one could play their games.

How many of the people who pirated those games would have bought them in the first place? I'm betting just as few as would have bought them after pirating.

Yeah, right. There are those kind of guys, but I think most people are pirating just for the sake of pirating.

http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/791728635_vj8qa-l-1.jpg

[Lulu_Jane]

How many of the people who pirated those games would have bought them in the first place? I'm betting just as few as would have bought them after pirating.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I've not only bought games that I've enjoyed after originally acquiring them mysteriously, but more to the point, I've then gone on to buy countless titles from the developers afterwards when a particular game has impressed me.

[Expack2]

Patchers the kind of guy who goes saying every other week that Nintendo is doomed, so I wouldnt really take him seriously.Umm...to whom are you referring?

[The Fifth Horseman]

I'd like to point out the fact that DRM is getting more elaborate, expensive and a pain in the ass for the end users... with what results, exactly? A few days of amusement to the crackers once they get going?
The publishers are facing a sunken costs fallacy here: About every form of DRM so far has been broken or circumvented in one way or another, meaning that the existing DRM has proven worthless. So they will invest MORE in NEW AND IMPROVED snake oil DRM... wait, that's going to end up cracked regardless, so what exactly are they hoping to achieve and more importantly who's getting rich on the publishers buying into the DRM scam?
I mean, seriously. Once cracked, the DRM doesn't hurt the pirates one jot but the LEGIT customers are getting a face full of it despite doing nothing wrong (apart from, you know, paying for having the DRM inflicted on them).
I know this is a bit off topic, but I've not only bought games that I've enjoyed after originally acquiring them mysteriously, but more to the point, I've then gone on to buy countless titles from the developers afterwards when a particular game has impressed me.Not just you. On certain occasions, though, it ended up the other way around for me when the legitimately bought original turned out to be unbearable (Tomb Raider Legend: Bought the Polish release from Cenega? Well, no English menus or subtitles for you! Manual says they're all there, but it turns out Cenega in their undying eternal genius left four other European languages intact and merrily went on to replace the English text with Polish translations. Blargh.)

[TheChosen]

Umm...to whom are you referring?

Pachter. Little typo there and you immediately think Im referring to someone else?

[DarthHelmet86]

That is kinda my point Fifth. Gamers aren't children any-more (not that they ever really were) and they don't like being thought of as pirates or thieves by the company they just gave money too. Some will go on to pirate out of spite or because they feel ripped off or are just angry but don't want to deny themselves a game they think they have a stake in. No matter what gaming does there will be pirates but they shouldn't be treating all gamers as pirates. I have pirated games and then gone on to buy them, I have nearly every Sierra game yet still buy them from GoG as well. I tend not to pirate new games but I still get annoyed at being thought of as a pirate and having to be online all the time to play my games or go through putting in 3 different codes and having to register online before I can get to play my game.

Gaming companies are like the music companies they like to blame the users for their stupid ideas. And their actions to stop the naughty pirates are only driving away more people who would have brought their games.

[Lulu_Jane]

DRM is a fine tightrope to walk I guess. I understand the need for it, but when it becomes difficult for the consumer then it's pointless.

A personal example is that I no longer buy music from the Gorillaz. I bought 3 of their albums from their website about 5 years ago, the files were so crippled that I basically threw money down a hole, being unable to move the files from one machine to another among other things. I ended up having to download the music illegally afterwards so I could actually play the damn stuff.

It actually felt insulting, and I've no urge to ever give them money again. To be fair though, this was years ago and last I looked their website and online purchasing it wasn't so retarded. Too late for me though.

I feel similarly about Ubisoft, the only difference being that I can't be bothered to get tangled up in it to begin with.

[Expack2]

Pachter. Little typo there and you immediately think Im referring to someone else?Thanks to time lag, I thought you were referring to one of the people who commented on the Gamasutra article I to which I linked. Sorry 'bout that! :doh:

[jonh_sabugs]

Unless we face a complete paradigm shift in computing (which is quite unlikely), DRMs will always be completely ineffective. I don't see why companies even bother with such crap.

[Eagle of Fire]

Well, I'm not ashamed one bit to say that I'm one of those so called "pirates" who would likely download a game to try it out... However, if I like a game or am impressed by it I will go buy it ASAP to support the developer.

But you know that? It never happen. Well, it does, but less and less. The last time I did download a game to try it out before purchasing it was Spore and I found out I could not play the game in full because it didn't want to support my graphic card. I didn't bother purchasing the game... Why would I purchase a broken game? Not to say that it was labeled and marketed as a revolution in gaming, which it was clearly not after playing it... I wasn't interested.

A good example of this though would be Civ III. I hated (and still do) Civ II in comparison to Civilization. So I was really lukewarm in "wasting" money on Civ III. Then a friend of mine brought a copied CD of his own for me to try, and believe it or not but I ended up purchasing the Gold Edition only a few weeks later.

My own opinion goes toward what DarthHelmet already said: those companies already treat me like I'm worse then the worse shit they've ever met even before I purchase their game. When I do purchase their game, I need to do what they want me to do on my machine or the game won't work! For someone like me who block all outgoing program traffic with my firewall, even downloading an online installer is ludicrous... Imagine if I'd need to stay connected to the net only to play the damn thing?

I feel insulted and because of it I'm far more likely to be what those companies refer to a "pirate". Because respect is a two way street.

[Red Fortress]

A good example of this though would be Civ III. I hated (and still do) Civ II in comparison to Civilization. So I was really lukewarm in "wasting" money on Civ III. Then a friend of mine brought a copied CD of his own for me to try, and believe it or not but I ended up purchasing the Gold Edition only a few weeks later.

The Gold Edition was kinda worthless as it only include first expansion pack (PTW: :sucks: which was stupid), not second one "Conquests".

Conquests was the one :( used for all the cool mods and total conversions...

[GTX2GvO]

About the cracking of DRM.
I've always looked for either a full crack or a plain No-CD for every game I Played.
Whether it was a pirated copy or an actual Store Bought CD/DVD.

Now With GOG (and steam) there's no need for it. ^_^
At it's worst I need to be online to play.

But things Like Starforce and Tages are hated here.
If I can't get rid of these kind of draconian DRM's I'm not even bothering with pirating the game. Let alone buy it.
If I can get rid of the DRM (or the store doesn't uses it) it's all about the price and availability. :)


A personal example is that I no longer buy music from the Gorillaz. I bought 3 of their albums from their website about 5 years ago, the files were so crippled that I basically threw money down a hole, being unable to move the files from one machine to another among other things. I ended up having to download the music illegally afterwards so I could actually play the damn stuff.

I got the 1st 3 albums too. (1st one still needs to be bought though :rolleyes: :whistling: )
But I bought 2 of the albums in the store and ripped them afterwards. :)
This ALWAYS gives you the filetype and compression YOU want. ^_^

[TheChosen]

I think Steam is a great example on good DRM. Some of it is still online only, but as a counter balance it offers lot of services and great prices. I mean, GTX gave it a change and now he uses it, and he's the guy that dislikes DRM a lot. Not to mention that after adding possibility to pay in rubles, Steam has become hugely popular in Russia, where piracy is widely spread.

[Eagle of Fire]

Conquests was the one used for all the cool mods and total conversions...
Well, I haven't looked at my case in ages (if I still have it). It was the version with both the expansion and conquest.

But even then, I would not care less about mods and conversions or whatnot. The chance that a normal player mod something I like are abysmal. I prefer to play the vanilla games, always.

[Lulu_Jane]

Not to mention that after adding possibility to pay in rubles, Steam has become hugely popular in Russia, where piracy is widely spread.

I didn't realize they'd done this, I'm impressed.

[Red Fortress]

Well, I haven't looked at my case in ages (if I still have it). It was the version with both the expansion and conquest.

But even then, I would not care less about mods and conversions or whatnot. The chance that a normal player mod something I like are abysmal. I prefer to play the vanilla games, always.

In that case your missing about 30-40% of the possible :headslap: enjoyment out of Civ 3:

A large game editing suit came with the "Conquests" expansion pack, and the Civilization community makes many excellent Scenarios/Mods.

Just take a :OK: quick look:
Medieval European Mod II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218602)
Escape From Zombie Island 2: The Remake (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=225191)
The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139163)
Age of Imperialism (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95741)
The Cold War - 1950s (http://www.stormoverciv.net/forums/showthread.php?p=14308#post14308)

Scroll down and look at the Screenshots, this is really polished stuff!!

[Eagle of Fire]

I think what you just linked prove my point well enough. I'm not interested in content which change the original game (the one I want to play) or only make graphic changes...

I might try the zombie one though. But only because it looks interesting while at the same time changing the whole game upside down. It certainly is not Civilization anymore... :huh:

[GTX2GvO]

....I'm not interested in content which change the original game....

....at the same time changing the whole game upside down. It certainly is not Civilization anymore....

THAT might actually be the whole point in some of the mods that are released for any game.
Take the original engine and game mechanics and create a whole new experience out of it. :)

[Japo]

This is off topic, but if you play or played Civ2, look for the scenarios by some John Ellis. They certainly look like a different game, and so much (even) the better! You don't have to make your own scenarios or mods to enjoy them, specially after yo've played so much the original game. I also played a few great ones for Age of Empires II.

[Smiling Spectre]

As being in Russia, I must say that Steam made actually three things recently.

1. They are introduced roubles, that made purchases slightly more transparent (no more counting "dollar costs 31 rouble today, so it can wait, because it will be 30 tomorrow"). Prices now constant, aside of sales. But it not affected possibilities of pay too much - all payment methods can "auto-convert" currencies.

2. They "matched" Steam prices with other online prices in Russia. Mostly it's nothing, sometimes slightly more expensive, but sometimes it become cheaper. Rarely, though.

3. They deleted about 20% of overall Steam content from purchases. Oops. No Civilization 5, no Bethesda games, no STALKER... And that's bad.

So, as for me, it was better in dollars.

[Lulu_Jane]

Any idea why they removed Bethesda content etc.?

[Smiling Spectre]

Well, at least some of this games are simply odd retailers licensing, I think. For example, Civ5 and Fallout 3 widely available in retail stores. And I can activate it on steam after buying in shop. But why they did it - IDK.

And, of course, it's also means no DLC and GOTY-versions for me. Most of it simply didn't get here for Fallout. (But maybe it's because I am in small town). And there is no Civilization 5 GOTY in Russia at all.

Speaking about Bethesda... I don't know. Maybe they fear rouble prices, or maybe they need new licensing in Russia, or maybe they wasn't aware before that I could get their games in Russia? IDK.

Some of game restrictions looks simply weird. STALKER, for example, was here at full in Spring, but only 3rd was available in "native" country, Ukraine. After currency change it became reversal: no STALKER, except 3rd, in Russia, but all in Ukraine. %) Now, I think, I have access to 2nd and 3rd parts, but still not to 1st.

[Lulu_Jane]

Odd turnaround considering their stance, but still neat:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/10/assassins-creed-revelations-wont-have-always-online-drm/

[Expack2]

Odd turnaround considering their stance, but still neat:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/10/assassins-creed-revelations-wont-have-always-online-drm/Given they announced the same with From Dust - only to add it back in when the game was released - I would take this announcement with some skepticism (e.g. 'with a grain of salt').

[cadderlet]

hi guys,

first off i am new here so hello all and sorry about introducing myself here but this thread caught my eye for some reason while i was browsing google.

So ubisoft call their DRM a success but report 90% drop in sales? ok, right.

I'm quite insulted because in contrast to that what ubisoft sound like theyre saying is that 90% of pc gamers are pirates.

They say nothing of the fact that software piracy these days is just as bad on the Xbox 360 due to flashing and probably even worse on the PS3 due to people like geohot releasing CFW's so i find ubisofts stance against pc users to be hypocrasy especially since we have been harder hit than consolse users since silent hunter 5 and assassins creed 2.

i wonder if ubisoft have reports showing sales of software games in contrast to the mainstream consoles and pc's, i think they would make interesting reading. Not to mention that, in some parts of the world, people dont have internet access (i know its hard to beleive but such places do exist) or very poor ISP's. If Ubisoft are going to insist on an always on internet connection as a form of DRM do they seriously expect to sell games in these parts of the world knowing that they have poor or no internet access?

feels more like to me that Ubisoft have shot themselves in the foot but dare not admit it, hailing it as more of a success than an abject failure. I sincerely hope that they dont suggest this form of DRM to other software companies. The effect that this form of DRM can have will be disasterous and i dont know if you realise it or not but it seems like people who dont buy the game because of poor internet coverage or purely because of the DRM are being lumped in with pirates also so it doesnt matter if you are legitimate or not ubisoft are more or less taring us all with the same brush, thats my biggest gripe with them.

Far as i'm concerned, once they have finished the Assassins Creed series, fuck ubisoft, they can do what they want.

[The Fifth Horseman]

This is somewhat handy: http://www.webpronews.com/swiss-government-declares-downloading-for-personal-use-legal-2011-12
probably even worse on the PS3 due to people like geohot releasing CFW's Not really. PS3's myth of having unbeatable security came from the fact nobody took seriously to breaking it before Geohot. The irony is that the PS3 antipiracy measures were broken because of the fuss raised by Sony's ham-fisted attempts to shut down Geohot and other likewise-minded individuals. What did that net them?
Well, for one, the PS3 security turned out to be a goddamn joke. And then the PSN data breaches are in the top 10 largest and most expensive such incidents in history. If you total up both of them the entire debacle qualifies as the second-largest, ever.

[Lulu_Jane]

Welp, that's one of the best introduction posts we've had here in awhile. Welcome to the forums Cadderlet :D

[cadderlet]

Hi Guys,

thanks lulu :3:

to be honest the way i see it, ubisoft dont seem to have much of a clue about what they are doing. If i thought it could be done, i would consider actually sueing ubisoft for slandering what they actually state as 95% of pc users as being pirates, i just figure if they're gonna slate me a pirate anyway i mgiht as well act like one "YYYYAAARRR ME HARTIES", guess thats where loyalty gets you these days.

I agree with some of the posts that i have seen on other forums that it seems to be a case that ubisoft want PC users to ditch ubisoft rather than see ubisoft ditch the pc. However, it occurrs to me that the pc market must be 2nd only to the 360 and only due to how hard it is to actually flash 360's these days. It is a fact that the wii is more or less blown wide open now, if ubisoft can make more than 3K a month on wii releases i will be surprised. I do honestly think though that world wide sales (typically in countries such as china, korea, japan and europe) will only get worse on the ps3 now, if PSN is ever hacked again i can seriously seeing that being the end of the ps3 since i doubt that the average household consumer will trust playstation anymore.

It will be very interesting too see what ubisofts figures are like over the next quater after making the remarks they have. I suspect that their sales figures will drop again now by a further 2-3% due to the resentment of loyal ubisoft fans at remarks made, will ubisoft class them as pirates too?

I think Ubisofts CEO must sleep with a big red button next to his bed marked "THIS COMPANY WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 SECS" and he must have got curious and pushed it cos if they are not careful, very careful, i cant se eubisoft being here in 10 years time not unless the new next gen systems due up for release i.e. the WiiU, PS4 and Xbox 720 redeem their public image or they appologise publically for what they have said. They must have realised how much buisiness they would loose if they dropped the PC due to their decision not to use the same DRM in AC3 as they did in AC2, or maybe they want to give modern warfare a run for its money before they screw pc gamers over?

but to be completely honest, as a gague try comparing sales of assassins creed 2 on the 360 to the ps3 to the pc. That i think would give an idea of how bad piracy actually is on the pc as compared to consoles since that game uses always on DRM and is available on all platforms.

sorry to keep banging on about it but i have a real bee in my bonnet over this :p (p.s.) ubisoft games are more expensive now on pc than they are on console in stores like steam and game.co.uk, dont know if anyone has noticed.