M.A.X Mechanized Assault & Exploration Crash

[Bethrezen]

hi all

I have an original copy of M.A.X which i recently started playing again and while it seems to work well enough for the most part all be it a little slow and laggie I'm once again running into an very annoying crash here is a screen shot of the error that it gives

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/503/crashg.th.png (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/503/crashg.png)

now i know M.A.X was never one of the most stable of games to begin with even with the 1.04 patch but I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is a way to put a stop to this and if so how maybe so one hacked together an unofficial patch to fix this problem in the intervening years?

Anyway i don't think this is anything to do with dos box because i seem to remember the same crash happening back when i was running win98se

[_r.u.s.s.]

i remember that these kind of things happened to me when my pc got "temporarily busy" and performed something in the background- leaving less cpu for the main application and then crashing it in this weird way

[Bethrezen]

humm some how i don't think so because I've seen this same crash happen on to many other computers all using different hardware and OS's used to get the same crash on my friend computers back in the day and on every computer I've tried M.A.X on since so that's at least 6 or more different pc's over the years so i find it unlikely that this is an issue with the computer or with dos box because it doesn't seem to matter whether its running nativity, in dosbox or running with vdm sound i always get the same crash repeatedly very irritating

[_r.u.s.s.]

perhaps a wrong selection of audiodrivers then? it can be anything. did you try to turn sound off in setup and play like that for a while?

[Bethrezen]

no but here is my dos box config file see if ya can spot anything an miss

# This is the configurationfile for DOSBox 0.74.
# Lines starting with a # are commentlines.
# They are used to (briefly) document the effect of each option.

[sdl]
# fullscreen -- Start dosbox directly in fullscreen.
# fulldouble -- Use double buffering in fullscreen.
# fullresolution -- What resolution to use for fullscreen: original or fixed size (e.g. 1024x768).
# windowresolution -- Scale the window to this size IF the output device supports hardware scaling.
# output -- What to use for output: surface,overlay,opengl,openglnb,ddraw.
# autolock -- Mouse will automatically lock, if you click on the screen.
# sensitiviy -- Mouse sensitivity.
# waitonerror -- Wait before closing the console if dosbox has an error.
# priority -- Priority levels for dosbox: lowest,lower,normal,higher,highest,pause (when not focussed).
# Second entry behind the comma is for when dosbox is not focused/minimized.
# mapperfile -- File used to load/save the key/event mappings from.
# usescancodes -- Avoid usage of symkeys, might not work on all operating systems.

fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=original
windowresolution=original
output=surface
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper.txt
usescancodes=true

[dosbox]
# language -- Select another language file.
# memsize -- Amount of memory DOSBox has in megabytes.
# machine -- The type of machine tries to emulate:hercules,cga,tandy,pcjr,vga.
# captures -- Directory where things like wave,midi,screenshot get captured.

language=
machine=vga
captures=capture
memsize=128

[render]
# frameskip -- How many frames DOSBox skips before drawing one.
# aspect -- Do aspect correction, if your output method doesn't support scaling this can slow things down!.
# scaler -- Scaler used to enlarge/enhance low resolution modes.
# Supported are none,normal2x,normal3x,advmame2x,advmame3x,hq2x,hq 3x,
# 2xsai,super2xsai,supereagle,advinterp2x,advinterp3 x,
# tv2x,tv3x,rgb2x,rgb3x,scan2x,scan3x.
# If forced is appended (like scaler=hq2x forced), the scaler will be used
# even if the result might not be desired.

frameskip=0
aspect=false
scaler=normal2x

[cpu]
# core -- CPU Core used in emulation: normal,simple,dynamic,auto.
# auto switches from normal to dynamic if appropriate.
# cycles -- Amount of instructions DOSBox tries to emulate each millisecond.
# Setting this value too high results in sound dropouts and lags.
# You can also let DOSBox guess the correct value by setting it to max.
# The default setting (auto) switches to max if appropriate.
# cycleup -- Amount of cycles to increase/decrease with keycombo.
# cycledown Setting it lower than 100 will be a percentage.

core=auto
cycles=max
cycleup=500
cycledown=20

[mixer]
# nosound -- Enable silent mode, sound is still emulated though.
# rate -- Mixer sample rate, setting any devices higher than this will
# probably lower their sound quality.
# blocksize -- Mixer block size, larger blocks might help sound stuttering
# but sound will also be more lagged.
# prebuffer -- How many milliseconds of data to keep on top of the blocksize.

nosound=false
rate=22050
blocksize=2048
prebuffer=10

[midi]
# mpu401 -- Type of MPU-401 to emulate: none, uart or intelligent.
# device -- Device that will receive the MIDI data from MPU-401.
# This can be default,alsa,oss,win32,coreaudio,none.
# config -- Special configuration options for the device. In Windows put
# the id of the device you want to use. See README for details.

mpu401=intelligent
device=default
config=

[sblaster]
# sbtype -- Type of sblaster to emulate:none,sb1,sb2,sbpro1,sbpro2,sb16.
# sbbase,irq,dma,hdma -- The IO/IRQ/DMA/High DMA address of the soundblaster.
# mixer -- Allow the soundblaster mixer to modify the DOSBox mixer.
# oplmode -- Type of OPL emulation: auto,cms,opl2,dualopl2,opl3.
# On auto the mode is determined by sblaster type.
# All OPL modes are 'Adlib', except for CMS.
# oplrate -- Sample rate of OPL music emulation.

sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
mixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplrate=22050

[gus]
# gus -- Enable the Gravis Ultrasound emulation.
# gusbase,irq1,irq2,dma1,dma2 -- The IO/IRQ/DMA addresses of the
# Gravis Ultrasound. (Same IRQ's and DMA's are OK.)
# gusrate -- Sample rate of Ultrasound emulation.
# ultradir -- Path to Ultrasound directory. In this directory
# there should be a MIDI directory that contains
# the patch files for GUS playback. Patch sets used
# with Timidity should work fine.

gus=true
gusrate=22050
gusbase=240
irq1=5
irq2=5
dma1=3
dma2=3
ultradir=C:\ULTRASND

[speaker]
# pcspeaker -- Enable PC-Speaker emulation.
# pcrate -- Sample rate of the PC-Speaker sound generation.
# tandy -- Enable Tandy Sound System emulation (off,on,auto).
# For auto Tandysound emulation is present only if machine is set to tandy.
# tandyrate -- Sample rate of the Tandy 3-Voice generation.
# disney -- Enable Disney Sound Source emulation. Covox Voice Master and Speech Thing compatible.

pcspeaker=true
pcrate=22050
tandy=auto
tandyrate=22050
disney=true

[joystick]
# joysticktype -- Type of joystick to emulate: auto (default), none,
# 2axis (supports two joysticks,
# 4axis (supports one joystick, first joystick used),
# 4axis_2 (supports one joystick, second joystick used),
# fcs (Thrustmaster), ch (CH Flightstick).
# none disables joystick emulation.
# auto chooses emulation depending on real joystick(s).
# timed -- enable timed intervals for axis. (false is old style behaviour).
# autofire -- continuously fires as long as you keep the button pressed.
# swap34 -- swap the 3rd and the 4th axis. can be useful for certain joysticks.
# buttonwrap -- enable button wrapping at the number of emulated buttons.

joysticktype=auto
timed=true
autofire=false
swap34=false
buttonwrap=true

[serial]
# serial1-4 -- set type of device connected to com port.
# Can be disabled, dummy, modem, nullmodem, directserial.
# Additional parameters must be in the same line in the form of
# parameter:value. Parameter for all types is irq.
# for directserial: realport (required), rxdelay (optional).
# for modem: listenport (optional).
# for nullmodem: server, rxdelay, txdelay, telnet, usedtr,
# transparent, port, inhsocket (all optional).
# Example: serial1=modem listenport:5000

serial1=dummy
serial2=dummy
serial3=disabled
serial4=disabled

[dos]
# xms -- Enable XMS support.
# ems -- Enable EMS support.
# umb -- Enable UMB support.
# keyboardlayout -- Language code of the keyboard layout (or none).

xms=true
ems=true
umb=true
keyboardlayout=none

[ipx]
# ipx -- Enable ipx over UDP/IP emulation.

ipx=false

[autoexec]
# Lines in this section will be run at startup.

[Scatty]

As far as I know memsize= has a maximum of 64, so 128 doesn't add any extra.
You might try to set core= to dynamic and cycles= to 27000 or more instead of max, depending on how strong your computer is.

[zirkoni]

Here is a tutorial for those who want a step by step tut for running MAX with Sound, IPX NETWORK and without DOS/4WG crash...

Step11)
Select "Start Max using original dos4wg" if you want to load max.
But if you encounter problems with DOS/4WG error when playing select "Start MAX using Freedos"
it will run the game without dos4wg but using a free version dos32a.exe

I don't know if it really helps but you could try downloading dos32a.exe, rename it to dos4gw.exe and replace the original.

[Wicky]

I know this crash very well, and it happens when you have too many units.
Try avoid building roads, redundant pipes, buildings on water platforms (yes, 2x2 building on water eats up 5 unit slots in RAM, 4 for the water platforms plus 1 for the building)
There is no way to fix this bug.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Try setting MPU401 emulation to None or UART. I had issues with some games on Intelligent before.

[Bethrezen]

I know this crash very well, and it happens when you have too many units.
Try avoid building roads, redundant pipes, buildings on water platforms (yes, 2x2 building on water eats up 5 unit slots in RAM, 4 for the water platforms plus 1 for the building)
There is no way to fix this bug.

wasn't there an unofficial fix or something that helped fix this issue ? im sure i remember reading about that somewhere around here ?

[KrazeeXXL]

the tips already mentioned are very good, especially what Wicky wrote complies with my xp as well.

as it's a buggy game one of the best things to keep a game alive for a long time is to save very often. (my longest game lastet for 135 turns)

Although it seems that the game screws up the savegames as well from time to time... :S
So its good to have some savegames in stock. Especially in later game stages you should save the game every single turn. When it crashs reload a former savegame and do things differently - u can find out y it crashed and prevent the game from doing so.

An important thing is to plan on a long-term sight. I often had crashes in later game stages as I had to destroy a single thing here and there as I wanted to get some free space.
It often had trouble with the connectors imo. You can build them everywhere and even build new buildings over them. But the game doesn't like that. So you should plan your base very foresighted.

I tried almost any possible combinations of DosBox settings to prevent it from crashing. And I came up with nothing. :/ But I didn't try a new memory manager as yet. This may help a bit.

but you may ask your question again and even be able to get some help in the forum of http://www.maxr.org

It's a small but fine community which still is dedicated to this great old game. They may be able to help you more then I do as I didn't play the game in the last 3 years.

[Wicky]

wasn't there an unofficial fix or something that helped fix this issue ? im sure i remember reading about that somewhere around here ?

Yes, the 1.04a patch should have fixed this bug, but it didn't. It's similar to the 256 unit limit bug in Sid Meyer's Colonization. Guess we have to thank Bill Gates for his quote: "No human will ever need more than 640kb of RAM"
:hihihi:
Some games just still rely on the 8-bit memory adressing which doesn't allow more than 256 units, or 16.384 with dword in total, and in MAX it counts for every single item be it a road/tank/debris/wall/factory etc.
You can proove that yourself, when the game crashes reload your last savegame and keep building until the crash happens again. At exact the same spot, it does not matter what you build, just 1 more thing of any type and it will always crash. :(

[Bethrezen]

I see so i take it this is not so much a bug in max as a design limitation of dos and by extension max as its based off of dos so the question is how does one get around this problem is there a way to extend the limit

edit

Ok this is interesting now I'm getting a second different crash here's a screen shot

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7365/crash2.th.png (http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7365/crash2.png)

any idea whats causing this one ? same problem that causing the first ?

dam the list of problems with this game just keeps on growing couple of addition things i noticed

1.) units becoming bugged upon reload this one happens if you attack a target but don't have enough shots to finish it upon your next turn the unit will automatically continue attacking the target but if for what ever reason you need to reload like for example the game crashes then there is a chance the unit will become bugged and will no longer be able to attack as its shot is frozen in mid air

2.) the auto pathing is also causing engineers to become bugged upon reload if ya use the path function to have an engineer build a road for example then there is a good chance upon reload and or possibly turn change that the unit will become bugged and will no longer be usable

3.) while patch 1.04 might fix some issues it introduces 2 fatal flaws 1 the computers wont fight each other anymore and possible 1 or more of the computers players will just sit there and wont do anything the gray computer is doing this on my current game 250+ turns and all its built is like 10 buildings and now it just spawns units from its tank factorys/air plant/naval yard and the other 2 computers wont come and fight me got a small bunch of alien gunboats on there coast and despite the fact I'm massive out numbered the computer wont come and fight me and this is on god mode to you would think the ai would be using all sorts of devious tricks to try and take me out but no it just sits there making very little effort god mode pah I might as well have it on clueless

tell ya i wish someone would make a patch to fix these issues I'd do it my self if only i was a programmer its a shame that maxr is only for online play and has no AI because this is frustrating and sucking the fun out of the game what a shame because max is a good game with so much potential

[voro13]

For people who are still interrested in this great game...
(sorry for my bad english)

My wish is to play against 3 god opponents (also MAX Reloaded does not fit my attendees)

The biggest issue is wellknown crash at ~100th round : it can be fixed using PATCH 1.04 + Extended DOS4G (PMODEW, DOS4G 2.01, ...)

To proceed (you can find stuff on the web), I used DOS4G 2.01 as I read on web that it was the best dos extender for MAX
- "PMWBIND /U MAXRUN.EXE" => got unbound "MAXRUN.LE"
- "COPY /B DOS4G201.EXE+MAXRUN.LE /B MAXRUN.EXE" => got bound MAXRUN.EXE
Now startup shows "DOS4GW V2.01" rather than "DOS4GW V1.97"


But I am not happy of opponents behaviour :

- First I want them to be allied (3vs1). It is not the case in 1.03, but in 1.04 => OK

- Taking just one opponent (thinking first they were not allied in 1.04 and also just one would be harder than three not allied), I noticed that anytime you reload/restart, first round after reload/restart he does nothing
=> OK given that DOS4G 2.01 fixes crashes, so no need to reload/restart

Difference between 1.03 and 1.04 : 1.03 always end turn after 45 sec, what is a problem after ~200th round as opponent has a lot to do
I made following tests
Version.....................DosBox MemSize..1st rnd after load...............2nd rnd after load
MAX 1.03 + DOS 2.01..16MB.................stop before 45s.................stop at 45s
...............................64MB............... ..stop before 45s.................stop at 45s
MAX 1.04 + DOS 2.01..16MB.................stop before 45s.................last ~5-6 min
...............................64MB............... ..stop before 45s.................last ~5-6 min


- I think problem is inside AI, as he always looks for a weak point to attack
up to 250th round, he used to attack me some time to time (5-10 planes, sometimes sending an infiltrator, 2-3 tanks) at some weak point I had in my base
Since I strengthed this weak point, he does not want to attack anymore (rare exceptions where he sends 2-3 planes)

I used the "[MAXSPY]" cheat code to have a look at his base, and it is twice mine, with around 500 units, so he could have a chance to break my defense
It is right that I have a huge defense, as I built wall of turrets (alternating aircraft and missile), but he should take his chance as I am outnumbered !

=> I am interrested in any other experience on this game


To answer previous post, what was my first intention

3.) while patch 1.04 might fix some issues it introduces 2 fatal flaws 1 the computers wont fight each other anymore and possible 1 or more of the computers players will just sit there and wont do anything the gray computer is doing this on my current game 250+ turns and all its built is like 10 buildings and now it just spawns units from its tank factorys/air plant/naval yard and the other 2 computers wont come and fight me got a small bunch of alien gunboats on there coast and despite the fact I'm massive out numbered the computer wont come and fight me and this is on god mode to you would think the ai would be using all sorts of devious tricks to try and take me out but no it just sits there making very little effort god mode pah I might as well have it on clueless

tell ya i wish someone would make a patch to fix these issues I'd do it my self if only i was a programmer its a shame that maxr is only for online play and has no AI because this is frustrating and sucking the fun out of the game what a shame because max is a good game with so much potential

I think using any DOS Extended rather than DOS4GW should fix issue of inactivity after 250+
If you want them to fight each other, you have to use 1.03, but he will always respect the 45 sec, so will not have enough time for development

I found V1.56 on the web, unbound it and bound it with DOS4G 2.01
Opponents are not allied anymore, for those who are interested
I do not know which issues are fixed, as there are no attached log

I stop here with this game, despite of its huge potential, as I am not satisfied by AI anymore