Lost City of Atlantis

[Bazly]

I wasn't entirely sure where to post this, but I was reading the review for the game Lost City of Atlantis (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/1066/Lost+City+of+Atlantis%2C+The.html), and something kind of... irked me.

The reviewer seems to imply that the fact that a nude male is the lead character is a negative point in the game. The reviewer states the fact that two women made the game as some sort of "excuse" for the presence of this character, and even go as far as to say that a nude female lead character would be somehow better.

I find this ver ysexist and heterosexist view a little insulting, and though I am NOT one for politcally correctness (I mean REALLY am NOT), it did put me off a bit. First off, would it be so terrible if a man created a game with a nude male character in it? It happened in Metal Gear Solid. Why does two women devleoping the game somehow justify a certain fact about the game?

Also, though the implication that a nude female character would make the game more succesful may be a fact, the review does not need to be concerned with how succesful the game was, and the implication that the game would somehow be improved by this heavily implies a preference for a straight-male mindset.

I don't mean to be a b*&^%, but I love this site and would hope others can feel welcome here, regaurdless of gender or sexuality, but things like this gaurantee that people will be made to feel unwelcome. And considering the game does start a nude male, it is likely that a lot of people drawn to it will be women or gay men, and to have a comment in the review somehow implying that their interest in the game is wrong is bound to be off-putting.

[Scatty]

Why does it bother you so much? It's just a review of a game that, though might be a bit biased, just reflects the opinion of that particular reviewer and does not necessarily represent the views of the entire site / forum and it's other members. It doesn't stop you from playing the game, does it? :p

[TotalAnarchy]

Hmm, I must disagree. He says that if the game had a lead female character, the game would've had more appeal to male teens whou would've bought the game making it an instant success. This might sound weird, but once in our forum's chatbox we reached a point when we started talking about the choice of main char in Resident Evil (Chris or Jill) and a couple of gamers which I considered very serious in their gaming addiction stipulated that they'd prefer staring at Jill's butt, instead of Chris', and did not choose a char according to the ease of association.

Suffice to say I was shocked, because I was playing Chris and did never look at his posterior... until they mentioned it, which made me think disgusted at how the human mind works. :no:

However the reviewer's point still stands. Outside the Olympic games, people without regard to gender, had (at least some) clothes on them.

On a sidenote, the whole sexist and non-sexist thing is debatable. What many ask when they call someone "sexist" is that the respective person drop the mentality that makes him a man or woman, and judge things from a neutral point. That's not only wrong, but also boring because it mostly supresses subjectivity. For example saying that guys have no particular opinion on the pink color, but the girls love it and like to identify with it, would be a "sexist" affirmation in someone's opinion, right? The same here, the reviewer's a guy, and obviously a guy likes girls, also he wouldn't want someone to see him playing with a naked male protagonist. Perfectly understandable, it's his opinion, and an opinion isn't always share by all people, genders, classes etc :)

[The Fifth Horseman]

I think these sum it up rather neatly:
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/01/tue-jun-01/
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/03/thu-jun-03/
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/12/sat-jun-12/

[Bazly]

Hmm, I must disagree. He says that if the game had a lead female character, the game would've had more appeal to male teens whou would've bought the game making it an instant success.

The same here, the reviewer's a guy, and obviously a guy likes girls, also he wouldn't want someone to see him playing with a naked male protagonist.

First off, though he does state that a female character would have had more appeal, he states it in a section of his review that specifically states that the nude male character is a downside of the game.

He also specifically states that the game was designed by two women, and that makes it "understandable" that the idea got through, as if it would somehow be wrong for a man to have chose nto make the lead male character nude.

And the second comment I've noted here, is exactly the kind of problem I'm pointing out, and is very common in gaming communities. I think we're living in a time where it shouldn't necessarily be obvious that a guy likes girls.

Why does it bother you so much? It's just a review of a game that, though might be a bit biased, just reflects the opinion of that particular reviewer and does not necessarily represent the views of the entire site / forum and it's other members. It doesn't stop you from playing the game, does it? :p

It certainly doesn't stop me from playing the game, and although you say it doens't reflect the opinions of the entire site, it was reviewed by other members of the site, and then posted on the site.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is that big of a deal, but the reviewer explicitly mentions what is, to be honest, a very minor fact about the game, as a downside, and claims it should have been different, and this can potentially alienate an audience, in particular if they are reading the review to learn about the game. I just think it is something that needs to be considered when we are looking at what content is being posted on the site. A statement like this translates to a sort of thinking that TotalAnarchy made clear: someone reads this review and thinks "It's true, most gamers are guys, and guys do like girls, so this game should have covered him up or had a nude female in the lead". In other words: games should not be designed with women or homosexuals in mind; video games should cater to straight men; and guys like girls, not other guys.

And finally, no, it certainly doesn't stop me from playing the game :bleh1:. But it does make me wonder how welcome I am in this community, if the general concensus seems to be that, as a guy, I should like girls and feel somehow uncomfortable that this game features a naked man. This is not the case, and statements like in this review or like TotalAnarchy's certainly make me wonder if how members of this site would react to my sexuality.

*^_^Quick little extra note: I'm not super enraged or anything, just making discussion. I'm not having a rage fit or trying to go on some epic rant, just discussing the issue. Just stating this so no one gets the wrong idea.

[Bazly]

I think these sum it up rather neatly:
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/01/tue-jun-01/
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/03/thu-jun-03/
http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/12/sat-jun-12/

LOL.

I think you may be missing the point their a bit, but thank you for your contributon nonetheless. :hihihi:

[Scatty]

A statement like this translates to a sort of thinking that TotalAnarchy made clear: someone reads this review and thinks "It's true, most gamers are guys, and guys do like girls, so this game should have covered him up or had a nude female in the lead". In other words: games should not be designed with women or homosexuals in mind; video games should cater to straight men; and guys like girls, not other guys.

And finally, no, it certainly doesn't stop me from playing the game :bleh1:. But it does make me wonder how welcome I am in this community, if the general concensus seems to be that, as a guy, I should like girls and feel somehow uncomfortable that this game features a naked man. This is not the case, and statements like in this review or like TotalAnarchy's certainly make me wonder if how members of this site would react to my sexuality.
Well, just so there are no misunderstandings or like - I am a guy, and I do like girls (only). Which doesn't mean you have to see it the same way. As for me, welcome to this forum, I hope this little review doesn't turn you off that much that you'll be urged to leave here in a hurry :) Concerning other users here - if you are homosexual and are afraid of being unwelcome, just use your common sense so not to approach someone with that matter in case he or she might be going to be offended with that, since mainly guys still do like girls even if that might change more with each day.
Games are just games though, if you ask me, whatever the main character is dressed like, whatever whoever likes it whichever way is left up to each one him- / herself. It's just a game, and people always have different opinions, hence the point in the review.

[_r.u.s.s.]

is this guy trolling? because if not, then duuuuude..

[hahajejeje]

This THIIIS GAME!!!! Ive looking it for years!!! since im 10!!....I never knew the name of the game,my brother call me crazy when Id tell him it was about a nude guy and atlantis..........I knew it was real!!!!! Im not crazy!:woot:!!!

[angry axe]

why would you tell anyone that you are looking for a game with a nude guy on it?

[dosraider]

Im not crazy!:woot:!!!
:mhh:

[angry axe]

This THIIIS GAME!!!! Ive looking a nude guy for years
:hihihi:

[The Bard]

I actually played this game quite a lot when I was a kid, but somehow failed to notice (until now) that the main char was a nude dude...
Explains a lot of weird childhood thoughts.

[arete]

Considering your signature, Bardy-Bard... ^^

Also, before this thread falls down the silly-hole, let's all agree to disagree and then go have some icecream or something...

[Lulu_Jane]

Actually... That review is pretty terrible. I can see how it would upset people.

Balzy, if you're interested in ammending it send me a pm.

[TotalAnarchy]

What part of it is terrible? It's probably better than anything I wrote... :huh:

For corrections we have the Grammar Team, if you think it bothers you so much send it to them. that's their job.

[DarthHelmet86]

The review looks fine to me, I don't see what the Grammar Squad could do to it, bar a rewrite and that isn't our job. The comment about the naked guy is not sexist in any way, he points out many different reasons as to why the two female game creators might have wanted a naked guy, and maybe they really did just want to have a naked guy to look at it's okay for a guy to do that it’s okay for a girl to do that, and even points out that its historically accurate. His further statement that maybe if it had of been a naked girl the game would have sold better is an opinion...do we want to replace every review we don't agree with the opinion of the writer on? As far as I can tell the writer isn't being sexist or offensive just pointing out that maybe it would have done better if the naked character had of appealed to the majority of gamers.

[dosraider]

His further statement that maybe if it had of been a naked girl the game would have sold better is an opinion...
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
Even the Ferrari advertising teams know that fact.
:lol:

[KrazeeXXL]

The POV of the guy who wrote this article is indeed very close-minded.
Although it is a very popular view below men it appears to be at least "a bit" intolerant adverse the same sex.

I'm surprised that he searched so long for this game, played the german version, even made contact to the producer and then lament of the nude-male main character.

Pretty weird.

Actually... That review is pretty terrible. I can see how it would upset people.

Balzy, if you're interested in ammending it send me a pm.

I have to agree partially. Although the author's POV should be a "no 90" for abandonia he wrote some interesting and useful facts about the game.

So at first I'd ask him to rewrite it.

[MrDeadly]

I'm amazed, and honestly a bit disappointed to find this thread. If this is one of the most controversial reviews on Abandonia then you really need to start raising the standard people... I don't feel the need to defend the issues with the review myself, as I'm glad to see others have done that perfectly already. But I will say this; if you don't agree with what's written in a review, then fine - disagree, and feel free to bitch about it all you want. That's your right. What you don't have a right to do however is to censor parts of a review just because you yourself find something in it offensive. Things that you either don't agree with, don't see or don't want to understand. This is what disappoints me. Yes, maybe a perfect game-review should be 100% objective, but that doesn't happen. One reviewer may find a game too violent, another wants much more blood and heads flying around. One reviewer feels the game is frustratingly hard, but people who bought it based on his/her review feels it's way too easy and becomes angry with the reviewer. Another reviewer thinks it was a grave mistake to include certain stereotypical characters or politically incorrect statements in the game, while others found it funny or couldn't really give a damn. Some reviewer think the game is so horrendous it should be banned, others can't praise it enough. And, lastly, one reviewer liked a certain game for it's game play, but would rather see a nude female main-character instead of a nude male, while others liked the guy... Get the point? It's all personal opinions - and unless you learn to deal with this I suggest you stop reading reviews, at least independent ones.

I won't re-write anything. If someone else changes the review then so be it, but then expect it to turn up someplace else uncensored with the tag "banned from Abandonia" and the reasons why it got changed, because people need to see just how low the bar on censorship is set around here.

[DarthHelmet86]

Hold you horses man, look how long ago this thread was actually active and see that nothing has happened to the review. You want to know why, cause the people with the power to change the review or rip it down all didn't do anything about it, we could have but we left it alone.

Also just because something is an opinion doesn't mean it won't, or can't offend someone. And if it does you have to expect someone to ask or demand that you change what you said (not the opinion just how you wrote it) if you can't deal with that or criticism of any kind then this isn't the place for you to be throwing up a review for us to use.

In other words before you start, as you put it, bitching about the censorsjip around here make sure we have censored something first.

[MrDeadly]

How did I bitch about censorship? I said that IF the review was changed it would raise the need to do something that showed people what low level of tolerance the site had. I didn't say such was the case now.

And I would have understood the need for a re-write perfectly well if I'd actually written something demeaning, cruel or expressed outrageous views against homosexuals or someone else. But there's nothing like that in there, and that's probably why the review was both accepted and has been up for nearly three years without any problems. Bazly and a couple of others managed to find something that "irked" them, and that's okay. They're entitled to their opinion, and criticize all they want, and that's why I didn't post anything in this thread before the talk about changing the review arose. That I felt the need to defend, because in this particular case, their opinions should not validate any editing. I'm glad to hear that it won't.

[DarthHelmet86]

If you were so desperate to defend your review why didn't you post in the thread when people where talking about changing the review...2 months ago almost. People are allowed to suggest that the review needs to be changed and are allowed to discuss if it should. Even if it doesn't seem offensive to you it doesn't mean it isn't to other people.

A simple "Hey guys I wrote the review and I don't see any thing offensive about it so I am not going to change it unless someone gives me a very good reason." post would have sufficed rather then threats of posting the review on other sites with Banned on AB on it.

If you read the thread you will see I was standing up for the review and saying it shouldn't be changed. Your choice of words about what you would do made it sound very much like you felt the tolerance around was low already. If you didn't mean it like that, thats fine ignore my quip about bitching.

[MrDeadly]

Sorry, I didn't know you had to post something within a certain time-frame in order for it to be valid. At first this thread didn't interest me much other then the fact that it was amazingly entertaining (and a bit jaw-dropping, but that's just me). But there was really no reason to speak out on anything. I don't have the time to hang around on the internet all day, so I didn't get to the latest comments until recently, but those gave me a reason to say something. However I didn't get around to write a reply until now.

On your suggestion about a simpler post, sure I could have done that, but I wanted to get a couple of points across. As for the "threat" thing, c'mon... All I said was that if the review got fiddled with for something like this, then people would be able to read it in full somewhere else, get to know the reason why it had been changed at its original location, and therefore see what was clearly not tolerated at that site. It would only have been the truth.

I've spent way too much of my weekend on this subject. But I've said all that I wanted to say, so I see no point in going on about it. I personally consider the matter closed.

[Eagle of Fire]

And the second comment I've noted here, is exactly the kind of problem I'm pointing out, and is very common in gaming communities. I think we're living in a time where it shouldn't necessarily be obvious that a guy likes girls.
I could not see this without replying to it.

I completely disagree. Homosexuals and lesbians (and/or whatever else!) represent such a small minority in any society that I really don't see why they should be given special treatments in texts written specifically for the masses.

What I think is that we already give way too much special treatment to very small minorities of our societies only because it is socially correct to do so. It really gets to my nerve too... Why should we bother using 25-30% of our resources for a group which represent 5-10% of the base group?

Of course those numbers are completely made up by me... But still, that's my general idea.

[Tracker]

I could not see this without replying to it.

I completely disagree. Homosexuals and lesbians (and/or whatever else!) represent such a small minority in any society that I really don't see why they should be given special treatments in texts written specifically for the masses.

What I think is that we already give way too much special treatment to very small minorities of our societies only because it is socially correct to do so. It really gets to my nerve too... Why should we bother using 25-30% of our resources for a group which represent 5-10% of the base group?

Of course those numbers are completely made up by me... But still, that's my general idea.

It really gets MY nerve too! Seconded. That's all I wanted to say.

[Lulu_Jane]

This is a stupid thread and I'm closing it for now.