Modifying a Saved game for Dummies

[Rogerwilco]

Modifying a Savedgame for Dummies

Ever wanted to know how to Modify/Cheat a game?
If, for nothing else, then the satisfaction of knowing how to do it?

Well, I'll lead you through on how.

This will be different: nothing on Hex, Binary, octal, 2 bit, 4 bit, Single value, Kitchen sink, etc. etc. Only thing you'll need is a readily available abandonware interpreter.

It'll be explained in a simple, common sense way. Simple programming.
All you'll need to do at first is change a path, file name and a value or two. I'll write the rest. Just cut and past to your program.

(Programming!?! Interpreter!?! I've never programmed in my life!)

The Interpreter is simple: I'll cover that in a bit . . ..

Programming? How's this for easy.

A& = 10000
OPEN "c:\Xeen\dark01.sav" FOR BINARY AS #1
PUT #1, 14848, A&
CLOSE

You just gave yourself 10,000 Widgits, Money, Gems, or whatever. Or 50,000 or 5 Million.

You'll follow along with me as I delve into the World of Xeen, though what I'll show you will work with any saved game.

So, if you're interested, this is what you do.

Google qb45.zip. It's out there, for free, in multiple sites.

Unzip it in its own folder, make a shortcut to qb45.exe, set it to full screen.
(If you don't know how to do that, let me know)

Next message, we'll start with an easy one: finding and modifying a single value(Item) like Gold, Gems, etc. I'll write the code.

[SlowCoder]

Sounds like an interesting offer. We'll see if you get any hits. I doubt you'd get too many though, due to the fact that the abandonware population is relatively small, and most of those are interested in completing the game on their own terms.

Comments:
* Many savegames are binary, not in plain text that is easily readable. So, just saying PUT #1,12345,"10000" won't be sufficient.
* The location of specific data in a savefile can, depending on the game, be different on a save-by-save basis. You'd likely need to search the file dynamically to identify the proper location of the data to be changed. That source would also need to be provided to the user who requests it.
* To anyone who wants to try this: Make sure you make a backup of your savegames before modifying them, otherwise you might lose your hard worked game progress.

On a side note: I believe QB45 is still licensed by MS, and is not legally free to download.

[Rogerwilco]

Hey, slowcoder, thanks for the reply....

Yup, you're right on the first one, that's why I did this:

Whatever&=10000

Put #1, 8858, Whatever&

QuickBasic will return an error code if you try and number instead of a variable

I know that the savegame files change, later on, if anyone's interested, I've written a little routine to work around that.

Also a simple file compare for more advanced stuff...

But I agree, Wait and see the response....

Rogerwilco and out

[Rogerwilco]

oops....missed one....

Microsoft did release all DOS Basics, along with Visual Basic for Dos...which never took off...I wonder why...:)

[SlowCoder]

I know that the savegame files change, later on, if anyone's interested, I've written a little routine to work around that.
Hope you don't mind me asking, but exactly how does your routine go about this? Each game may have a totally different savegame format. And each savegame file for any particular game may appear completely random, unless you get into it in binary or hex mode. I am genuinely interested here. Not being smart or critical.

Microsoft did release all DOS Basics, along with Visual Basic for Dos...which never took off...I wonder why...:)
I've not been able to find any official documentation that MS has released any of these as abandonware. I find it even less likely, as it is Microsoft, who, to my knowledge, have never released anything for free. Heck, you still can't even install any version of MSDOS legally without a license.

If I'm incorrect, please show me.

[dosraider]

I've not been able to find any official documentation that MS has released any of these as abandonware. I find it even less likely, as it is Microsoft, who, to my knowledge, have never released anything for free. Heck, you still can't even install any version of MSDOS legally without a license.

If I'm incorrect, please show me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBasic
Scroll down to 'external links' and you can download it directly from microsoft.ftp.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win95upg/tool_s/1.0/w95/en-us/olddos.exe

So yes, and it's old news, you seem to missed that one.
:)

And VBasic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic
All you need@MSDN
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbrun/default.aspx

[SlowCoder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBasic
Scroll down to 'external links' and you can download it directly from microsoft.ftp.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win95upg/tool_s/1.0/w95/en-us/olddos.exe

So yes, and it's old news, you seem to missed that one.
:)

And VBasic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic
All you need@MSDN
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbrun/default.aspx

Hehe ... Trying to prove me incorrect, eh? Haha! Fooled you!

The link you provided for QBasic is for QBasic, not QuickBasic. QBasic was provided free with later versions of DOS and Windows. It had essentially the same IDE as QuickBasic, but lacks functionality like source compiling and debugging that is present in the pay QuickBasic 4.5.

The link for VBasic is for newer versions, not the old VBDOS. Still no indication that it's free.

* Licks finger and uses it to draw an invisible "1" in the air. "Score one for SlowCoder!" * Gawd, I'm a dog! :max:

[dosraider]

Oh my, in a nitpicking mood, aren't we?

Details, small details, microscopic even.

Pfffffffffffffff.


A propos, I even don't wanna know where that finger was before you licked it.
YEKS.
:omg:


grmbl grmmmmpfff.

[SlowCoder]

Oh my, in a nitpicking mood, aren't we?
Details, small details, microscopic even.

Only when I'm ... hmmm ... right. :bleh:

A propos, I even don't wanna know where that finger was before you licked it.
YEKS.
:omg:

Yep, you probably don't. :bleh: For me to tell you would probably set off some subroutine of your elderness firewall and launch you into a flamefest of all that is unsuitable in society! :mischief:

[dosraider]

Only when I'm ... hmmm ... right. :bleh:
Ohwell, even if it isn't fully ABWare or FreeWare it certainly is PiratedWarez.
And that's a fact.
:noworry:

[Rogerwilco]

Well, this thread sure stayed on Subject..... Heh....

Um, in case you don't know....

Visual Basic for DOS is *not* anything like Visual basic.....

[Rogerwilco]

Missed one again, slowcoder...... you done wrote

The location of specific data in a savefile can, depending on the game, be different on a save-by-save basis. You'd likely need to search the file dynamically to identify the proper location of the data to be changed. That source would also need to be provided to the user who requests it.


you use a compare routine.... There has to be some constant, or the game itself wouldn't know where to find the proper values in the saved game

Hope that helps

Rogerwilco and out

[SlowCoder]

Well, this thread sure stayed on Subject..... Heh....

Um, in case you don't know....

Visual Basic for DOS is *not* anything like Visual basic.....
You are very correct. Well, it is, but not by much. What kept me from using it is that you can't use the "VB" part in anything other that screen 0! OMG!

Missed one again, slowcoder...... you done wrote

The location of specific data in a savefile can, depending on the game, be different on a save-by-save basis. You'd likely need to search the file dynamically to identify the proper location of the data to be changed. That source would also need to be provided to the user who requests it.
you use a compare routine.... There has to be some constant, or the game itself wouldn't know where to find the proper values in the saved game

Hope that helps

Rogerwilco and out
No. I don't think I missed it. I think I'm right on, still. But you're also right about the comparison routine. Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Many years ago (well, not THAT long ago in DOSRaider years :omg:) I wrote some gamesave hacks myself in QuickBasic. My experience showed me that many gamesaves were done in binary to save space, as 5.25 disks didn't have much space. A bit saved is a bit earned!

Before we continue, please don't think I'm downing your attempt to help the community. I'm just arguing for argument sake.

[Rogerwilco]

No. I don't think I missed it. I think I'm right on, still. But you're also right about the comparison routine. Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Many years ago (well, not THAT long ago in DOSRaider years ) I wrote some gamesave hacks myself in QuickBasic. My experience showed me that many gamesaves were done in binary to save space, as 5.25 disks didn't have much space. A bit saved is a bit earned!

Before we continue, please don't think I'm downing your attempt to help the community. I'm just arguing for argument sake.

Hey.
First off, no way do I think this is negative. Just having fun.

You penned:
Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Sorry, you lost me. the simple routine does compare binary to binary... if I understand you correctly that is: I'm an old, learn by doing guy, just plodded along and figured it out the Irish way....Heh....

Boy, and you're right on on the bit saved, etc. My first computer had 4k of memory..... I worked for a component company at the time, so i was able to wrangle the latest and greatest chips: 16k!

That's 16 Kilobytes, Folks. Not Megabytes

The Data storage was a modified cassette tape recorder....and you programmed in Basic....original Basic.....

Course I remember before that when called on Litton Memory Systems: they made the cutting edge stuff at the time: Core memory, which was tiny donut magnets with wires running through them..... spaghetti code abounded with all the goto's

One "unit" was one K bits....that's bits, not Bytes

But I digress..... Heh...flaws of the elderly.....

[SlowCoder]

Heh, I'm not as aged as you, but looks like we've got some common interests! My first computer was the Coleco ADAM, with cassette drives and cartridge slot! I learned BASIC on it. The ADAM disappeared from our house when we got an XT machine. I still miss both machines, and really wish I still had the XT. The old PCs, XTs and ATs were made of steel, and nothing short of a direct lightening strike would hurt it.

I dropped an AT at work from a 7 foot shelf onto a hard slate floor. The chassis was slightly tweaked, but I reseated all the equipment and it fired up, no problems. Do that today with a current machine and you're likely to get PC fodder everywhere.

I did my time writing in BASICA, then QuickBasic. Here's a link to some of my material that I wrote in high school: http://www.slowcoder.net/basic
Take a look at them if you like. :)

[Rogerwilco]

You Done Typed . . ..

Heh, I'm not as aged as you, but looks like we've got some common interests! My first computer was the Coleco ADAM, with cassette drives and cartridge slot! I learned BASIC on it. The ADAM disappeared from our house when we got an XT machine. I still miss both machines, and really wish I still had the XT. The old PCs, XTs and ATs were made of steel, and nothing short of a direct lightening strike would hurt it.

I dropped an AT at work from a 7 foot shelf onto a hard slate floor. The chassis was slightly tweaked, but I reseated all the equipment and it fired up, no problems. Do that today with a current machine and you're likely to get PC fodder everywhere.

I did my time writing in BASICA, then QuickBasic. Here's a link to some of my material that I wrote in high school: http://www.slowcoder.net/basic
Take a look at them if you like.


Heh....my first was a Trash 80 (TRS 80) and that's where I learned Basic...

I was 30 at the time, and turned into a little kid I was so fasinated by it.

Back then you bought books of Basic code for programs: there was little or no "pre coded" casettes available

You could use regular casettes, just be carefull and not rewind back to the leader...

After I upgraded to a whopping 16k, I tackled typing the Basic code for this, at the time, state of the art needed 16k to run game: Star trek!

8 x 8 Grid, various klingons in each square, it was really something, boy...

To get a somewhat feel for it, there's still a startrek game that has the same basic premise: EGATrek.

Course it was drawn with ascii, in Black and white, and all keyboard commands.

Checked out your site! Pretty neat. Oh, I'd forgotten about...Line Numbers!

100 GOTO 150
150 GOTO 220
220 GOTO 100

Heh.......

I had a buddy of mine open a computer repair shop back in the XP days:
I'd help him out from time to time, and you're right, those were built like tanks.

I found everything from paper clips to little kids toys in the drive....

I remember when I upgraded to......a 286! Wow........

10 Meg Hard drive, as I recall........

Hey, you remember these Programs?

SLED
LIST
Scan32
Sidekick
The Draw
Fido
ZZT


Speaking of Fido..... How about...BBS's?

Single file programs, that if you changed any attributes like the color scheme, it would clone itself to the new settings.

[SlowCoder]

Yeah, I played EGA Trek back in the day. I still drag it out for some old school fun now and then. I also play Rogue periodically.

My very first game (other than the Atari 2600) was "Buck Rogers" on tape ( http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/23883/Buck+Rogers+-+Planet+of+Zoom.html ), ADAM version. I'd play it over and over and over. Somehow the tape never self destructed!

Of the programs you listed, I remember Sidekick and TheDraw. I never used SideKick, because I used Norton Commander. I used TheDraw to build some ASCII screens for some of the local BBSs. :) I used Telix to connect to them. I used a word processor called Galaxy, and was very good at manual text formatting. I even transcribed a couple of game manuals into ASCII with it, complete with ASCII graphics.

When I first got my XT, I wanted so badly to learn DOS. I remember formatting my hard drive a couple of times, requiring a trip to the computer store by my father to have everything reinstalled. :(

To this day, I have all but one game in my library from the old days. That one, which has alluded me, was an ASCII-based golf game. I'm afraid it has disappeared into obscurity and been lost to history. :(

Gawd, we're a couple of nerds, eh?

[Rogerwilco]

Heh . . .. And I was a Sales Manager at the time I bought that Trash 80....

Sidekick wasn't like Norton commander,

Sidekick was the first TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) program out there...

Simple stuff, calulator, address book, notepad...you hit some weird key combination to bring it up....but Wow...... Was that something...
Norton commander..... I've lived with that for years and years...the Grandaddy of all dos shells....

I'm using Total Commander now, but they use the exact same commands as NC.... I've still got it in storage, and would use it 'cept that old DOS 8 char file name max..... it'll truncate anything longer.....

What was the name(3) of some of the popular BBS software? For some reason, all I can recall is Fido...which was old when I got into it.... I had a BBS, BTW...

Remember those BBS "On line" games?

How about 300 Baud modems?

My first was a 1200 Baud, and man, that smoked!

Heh

Looking at your handle, do you have any software out there, either Retail, shareware or freeware that you've written?

I wrote a grand total of two Shareware programs, had a bit of response, but that was in the late 80's early 90's.....

a few dozen freeware bits, almost all savegame cheats......

Heh....Just flashed on....remember ZZT?

Rogerwilco and out

[Data]

5th has a nice in between programming language for editing savegames.


It might be beneficial to split this thread on savegame editing and nostalgia talk.

[SlowCoder]

Heh . . .. And I was a Sales Manager at the time I bought that Trash 80....

Sidekick wasn't like Norton commander,

Sidekick was the first TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) program out there...

Simple stuff, calulator, address book, notepad...you hit some weird key combination to bring it up....but Wow...... Was that something...
Norton commander..... I've lived with that for years and years...the Grandaddy of all dos shells....

I'm using Total Commander now, but they use the exact same commands as NC.... I've still got it in storage, and would use it 'cept that old DOS 8 char file name max..... it'll truncate anything longer.....

What was the name(3) of some of the popular BBS software? For some reason, all I can recall is Fido...which was old when I got into it.... I had a BBS, BTW...

Remember those BBS "On line" games?

How about 300 Baud modems?

My first was a 1200 Baud, and man, that smoked!

Heh

Looking at your handle, do you have any software out there, either Retail, shareware or freeware that you've written?

I wrote a grand total of two Shareware programs, had a bit of response, but that was in the late 80's early 90's.....

a few dozen freeware bits, almost all savegame cheats......

Heh....Just flashed on....remember ZZT?

Rogerwilco and out

I never actually ran a BBS, but I was very active in the local ones at the time. Made friends with the sysops, a couple of which I still talk to. :) Contributed games I'd snagged from other BBSs, and drew come ANSI screens.

My first modem was also a 1200bps. Unfortunately my father bought it when 2400bps modems were already out, so I was still the "slowest on the block". I'd sometimes go to my friend's house to use his. My next modem was a USRobotics 14k external, which was a great improvement! But by that time I had found the Internet, and my time on BBSs was decreasing. :( Looking back, I really wish I could go back to my XT with its 1200bps modem, and have a day of atl3x4dt! (For those that don't get it, that's a modem dial string, typed into a terminal.)

As far as ZZT, I never played it, though "ZZT" is a very familiar sequence of letters from back in the day. From a little googling, it looks like it was some sort of Rogue/WOW type game? Looks pretty neat! Think I might have to give it a real teardown.

Other than my Animator software, I never released anything of my own to the public, until recently. I decided to place my stuff out there because I became nostalgic about QB about a month ago, and wanted to contribute my old stuff to the QB community.

Oh, yes. Now I do remember Sidekick. I think I tried it once, but had problems with performance, or it didn't work, or something or other. :) That was back in the late 80's-early 90's? I was a teen at that time, so software like that wasn't of real importance yet.

Edit: :omg: Holy Bug Eyes Batman! SideKick for DOS is still being sold. The surprise here is that it still costs between $59 and $99??? Holy Mazoli! I'd figure that someone who could afford that price could also afford a newer computer that can run newer software to do the same stuff!

[Rogerwilco]

It might be beneficial to split this thread on savegame editing and nostalgia talk.
__________________

Hey, Data....

Reason was, no one responded to wanting to learn, so it kinda drifted into chewing the fat....

I you are interested, just pot it here and I'll continue...lemmie know

Rogerwilco and out

[Rogerwilco]

Hey, slowcoder

(As far as ZZT, I never played it, though "ZZT" is a very familiar sequence of letters from back in the day. From a little googling, it looks like it was some sort of Rogue/WOW type game? Looks pretty neat! Think I might have to give it a real teardown.

Other than my Animator software, I never released anything of my own to the public, until recently. I decided to place my stuff out there because I became nostalgic about QB about a month ago, and wanted to contribute my old stuff to the QB community.

Oh, yes. Now I do remember Sidekick. I think I tried it once, but had problems with performance, or it didn't work, or something or other. That was back in the late 80's-early 90's? I was a teen at that time, so software like that wasn't of real importance yet.

Edit: Holy Bug Eyes Batman! SideKick for DOS is still being sold. The surprise here is that it still costs between $59 and $99??? Holy Mazoli! I'd figure that someone who could afford that price could also afford a newer computer that can run newer software to do the same stuff!)

ZZT was a really popular game using just ascii. It's still fun in a retro way, and if you haven't played it, give it a whirl. It's out there.


As I recall, sidekick was always buggy, and with those oldie systems, taking up even a small amount of memory could be a problem.

I can't believe it's still being sold. And for that price? I doubt if it would work, not to mention there's a plethora of freeware packages out there that to that and a whole lot more....

Hey, do you remember MLBBS's?

The latest and greatest in the late 90's.....

ANSI Graphics..... Still cool. I wrote a bucketfull of ANSI utilities back in the day....

Wonder how I got anything else done?

:)

[SlowCoder]

I can't believe it's still being sold. And for that price? I doubt if it would work, not to mention there's a plethora of freeware packages out there that to that and a whole lot more....

http://www.emsps.com/oldtools/borsk.htm

Hey, do you remember MLBBS's? The latest and greatest in the late 90's.....
By the late 90's I was well into the Internet, and had pretty much left BBSing behind. There weren't many of the local old-school BBSs left by that time, anyway. It's really too bad because they were a great hobby from what I understand. But older tech makes way for newer.

ANSI Graphics..... Still cool. I wrote a bucketfull of ANSI utilities back in the day....
Yeah, but they've been replaced by GIF and JPG, and most people have left it far behind. Unfortunately just like many of the games here. It's really too bad, because so much of the old-school technology could give a lesson to the newer stuff, and show the youngies what it took to get from the dark ages to now in technology. These days kids come in knowing all about how to browse the Internet and to use Word effectively. But they never get a good feel for how a computer works in the background, unlike the older days. Sad really.

Any of your ANSI utils in use today? TheDraw was my staple, and I was ok with it, but nothing real special. I opened TheDraw for the first time in many years just a couple of months ago, and couldn't remember much. I did manage to get the Ship/Castle animation to work, though! Hehe ...

[Rogerwilco]

Yeah, but they've been replaced by GIF and JPG, and most people have left it far behind. Unfortunately just like many of the games here. It's really too bad, because so much of the old-school technology could give a lesson to the newer stuff, and show the youngies what it took to get from the dark ages to now in technology. These days kids come in knowing all about how to browse the Internet and to use Word effectively. But they never get a good feel for how a computer works in the background, unlike the older days. Sad really.

Any of your ANSI utils in use today? TheDraw was my staple, and I was ok with it, but nothing real special. I opened TheDraw for the first time in many years just a couple of months ago, and couldn't remember much. I did manage to get the Ship/Castle animation to work, though! Hehe ...
__________________________________________________ ______


Arrrg! I messed up...MLBBS's were the latest and greatest in the late *80's*

oh yea, I'm gratefull to be there when this whole computer thing was "growing up"

you had to know what you were doing back then......

the entire DOS was three files: Command.com, Msdos.sys and.... another one...the last two were hidden, so you only saw Command.com when you DIR'ed it.



Used to peruse PC Magazine for these little code snippets...either in Basic, or Binary(Assembly?)

you wrote it out as something like:

...if I recall....to convert it...lessee....it was, I *think* a consol command....remember those?

like

COPY CON THIS.TXT
This is a test <enter>

then CTRL-Z to put an EOF mark
<enter>

and you had yourself a text file

Anyway, when you ran the code it turned into a .COM file....

Those dozens of little utilities you couldn't live without.....

Hey, remember...EDLIN?????

Wow.....those days when microsoft had the crappiest utilities going....Hmmm...nothing has changed much, has it.....


ANSI stuff.....lessee... I probably have the sorce code somewhere...the only one that comes to mind right now was ANSIFY....took any standard ascii text file and ANSIFIED it, turned each letter into a random color.....did other stuff too, like cOnVeRtInG cAsE

you could set the intensity, Blinks or no blinks, etc.

Tells you how slow the old systems were: it had a progress bar so you could see it processing...heh.....

I did some stuff you could incorporate into your Basic program, graphics wise, but i can't remember off hand.....

Oh yea, I remeber The Draw's Spaceship and castle...and what passed for animation back then.....

It had an export function that made BLOAD images...

Remember when screensavers were really used to save the screen? Those old green monitors would burn an image if the text/whatever was left on too long....

Retro stuff.....what happens when you get old....

[SlowCoder]

* Imagines what the other forum guys are thinking when they read this stuff. Probably making some offhanded expletive remark, rolling their eyes and clicking the Back button to find something more interesting to read :) *

I didn't use edlin much at all. But I did use the "copy con" command quite often during the early DOS 2/3.x days, mostly to rewrite config.sys and autoexec.bat. When DOS 5 came out I moved on to the new EDIT software. WAY EASIER!

Working in the education environment, I see kids these days doing so much with computers. They are able to accomplish so much, very amazingly. But if you ask them HOW the computer does stuff, they have no idea. Basically they're the equivalent of script kiddies, using the applications as a means to an end, but not understanding what's under the hood. And since most use MS OSs, life's so simple that they can't even tell what an interrupt or bus is. There are very few who manage to pass muster as far as I'm concerned. (Wholly geez! Did I just say "muster"? Age is creeping up on me!)

These days I use Linux for a number of reasons. One of those is that I enjoy being able to tinker with the OS, and nothing is hidden from me. For instance, I can trace what happens when I plug a piece of hardware all the way from the kernel to the driver, to the apps themselves. Really fun stuff for me. :)

I don't remember anything just becoming a COM, but I do remember using DEBUG to make the computer do things that were otherwise not available, such as restarting via batch file.

[dosraider]

the entire DOS was three files: Command.com, Msdos.sys and.... another one...
IO.SYS

* Imagines what the other forum guys are thinking when they read this stuff........
Boooooooooooooooooooooooring, that's what I think.
And: WhyTF they don't do this in a chat session.
:yawn:

[SlowCoder]

Boooooooooooooooooooooooring, that's what I think.
And: WhyTF they don't do this in a chat session.
:yawn:

... And yet you're still standing here. :bleh:

[Rogerwilco]

Hey, slowcoder . . ..

I think dosraider needs some Midol....:)


COM was an executable file, remember? if you had three files, all named the same, like:
test.com
test.exe
test.bat

DOS would "look" for the com first, then the exe then the bat..... I think it's still that way...

And.......for dosraiders enjoyment.....heh

Hard to believe, but one Quickbasic was considered a "High end" programming language......

Biggest knock was the large file size - like a stand alone 35-45k was large - and it was slow in those old systemd compared to assembly . . ..

Remember Z80?

Hint: 8088's powered the XT's

Hardware interrupts.....256 - or is it 255 - tiny programs embedded in the microprocessor that was the core of everything a computer does.....

I was lucky enough to work in the Silicon Valley in the late 70's through the 80's.....

Some for my accounts were Intel, National Semi, AMD...... Got to see how thay made the chips, kept up on all the latest breakthroughs...

I remember when National came out with a 5 inch wafer! No kidding...that was a BIG deal back then....

Oh yea...in the early 80's, my biggest account was Shugart. They made floppy disk drives....... The founder went on to start Seagate....

Anyone out there remember Amdahl systems? They were the only competitor to the large IBM mainframes.....

[dosraider]

COM was an executable file, remember? if you had three files, all named the same, like:
test.com
test.exe
test.bat

DOS would "look" for the com first, then the exe then the bat..... I think it's still that way...
Nope.
The first Dos would read and execute is test.bat, always the batch first.

And you're still boooooooooooooooooooooooring.
:yawn:

[Rogerwilco]

Nope.
The first Dos would read and execute is test.bat, always the batch first.

And you're still boooooooooooooooooooooooring.

You know you're right, BAT does come first...senior moment :)

and if this is so darn Booorning, why are you reading and responding???

Huh???????

[dosraider]

and if this is so darn Booorning, why are you reading and responding???

Huh???????
Because you're so booooooring it's almost funny.

'Almost'....
:yawn:

And hit the "quote" button when you want to quote someone.

[SlowCoder]

Because you're so booooooring it's almost funny.

'Almost'....
:yawn:
So you're saying it's like watching Teletubbies, eh? (I know you know what I'm talking about, since you have grandkids :)) The show's so under you, but as much as you try to avert your eyes, you find yourself mesmerized and watching the entire length of the show! I'm way too guilty of that.

And as to .COM files, I do remember .COM files. But I don't remember a batch file that could become a .COM file simply by executing it.

[_r.u.s.s.]

if my grandkids watched teletubbies, i'd put them in orphanage

[dosraider]

And as to .COM files, I do remember .COM files. But I don't remember a batch file that could become a .COM file simply by executing it.
Where you read that?
Smoking mushrooms lately, ain't you?

[SlowCoder]

Where you read that?
Smoking mushrooms lately, ain't you?

:) I do like my mushrooms, but on my spaghetti, or between a hamburger bun with a big chunk of meat.

Check post #21, if you're interested, where he RogerWilco mentions exactly that.

[dosraider]

you wrote it out as something like:

...if I recall....to convert it...lessee....it was, I *think* a consol command....remember those?

like

COPY CON THIS.TXT
This is a test <enter>

then CTRL-Z to put an EOF mark
<enter>

and you had yourself a text file

Anyway, when you ran the code it turned into a .COM file....

You meant this? Post 24 that is, post 21 is -or was- RW's postcount ... LMAO.
Yep, that's a case of weird writing I guess, though there exist conversion progs that compiles batch files into executables ones.
You still can find them around TeH InTrAhNeT.

And this whole topic is still booooooooring.
It looks more and more as a talky between some ol'men on a bench ... *do you remember, when we were young and beautiful, ....* ....LMAO.

[SlowCoder]

And this whole topic is still booooooooring.
It looks more and more as a talky between some ol'men on a bench ... *do you remember, when we were young and beautiful, ....* ....LMAO.

Fair enough ... But methinks you are doing a little reminiscing yourself, as you are still participating in the thread. And that's great with me! Actually, for someone your age (if it's your real age) to be a member of this site, means:
1. You're probably a very cool grandparent, who likes to share is past game experiences with his grandchildren. :)
2. You're very likely being nostalgic about the games here. Someone else might think a conversation between you and another on a different forum about classic games, is boring.

The reason I am conversing with RW about all this is because we seem to share a few similar interests and experiences. For me, I was a kid when I started using DOS, and had an almost obsessive interest in computers, programming and games. This stuff brings back good memories for me.

As for being young and beautiful, I was (and still consider myself) young, but never considered myself beautiful. :( I would have fit in well with the characters from "Revenge of the Nerds", including the calculator I kept in my jacket pocket and the tight, above the ankle, pants.

[Rogerwilco]

Fair enough ... But methinks you are doing a little reminiscing yourself, as you are still participating in the thread. And that's great with me! Actually, for someone your age (if it's your real age) to be a member of this site, means:
1. You're probably a very cool grandparent, who likes to share is past game experiences with his grandchildren. :)
2. You're very likely being nostalgic about the games here. Someone else might think a conversation between you and another on a different forum about classic games, is boring.

The reason I am conversing with RW about all this is because we seem to share a few similar interests and experiences. For me, I was a kid when I started using DOS, and had an almost obsessive interest in computers, programming and games. This stuff brings back good memories for me.

As for being young and beautiful, I was (and still consider myself) young, but never considered myself beautiful. :( I would have fit in well with the characters from "Revenge of the Nerds", including the calculator I kept in my jacket pocket and the tight, above the ankle, pants.

Hey all......

Thanks to the Midol Man - Dosraiderette - I now done learned of tis Quote stuff...

Moment of clarity and remembance:

Back in the 80's you could pick up from the BBS's or computer magazines code that you convert, via a BAT file into a COM file. Usually little utilities....

The text went something like this:

Something.bat

FF 00 2D FF OC
(then more code stuff)

>Whatever.com

the ">" I assume you know what that does

And you run the BATch file, and end up with a program, Command file.....

Hope that clarifies it.........

Okay, enough of that...let's bore Dosraiderette some more...Heh.... :)

Hay slowcoder, remember BATCHMAN?

put out by PC Magazine in the...late 80's?

a front end program that enhanced your batch files....

as I recall, it went something like this:


batchman color 15,1
batchman box, 22,11,22,11
batchman locate 25,12,
batchman print Hello out there

ect. etc.

CGA graphics with that hidious purple ....eeew........

Heh...... and the realization you could rename COM & EXE files to make them easier to type..

like batchman.com to b.com.....simple, simple.....

You could do0 some wild stuff with Batch files, in reality a programming language, and it was a challange, considering the limit of commands..

there was a goto, and an if then.....

Hmmm......trying to jog the memory here.....oh yea......

if you wanted blank lines, instead of:

echo.
echo.

you could type echo (CTRL C) I *think* I know it was CTRL something, and you didn't see this:
.
.
.
.


Heh....remember...push & pop? (If I've got that right)

Assembly, I *think*. Never got into it that much....

int 12,22,19
push 12,22,19
pop 12,22,18

something like that

ANSI code used those little side arrows - extended ascii - that I couldn't figure out how to generate in a txt file

Copy & paste, copy & paste, copy & paste.......

Remember when DOS 5 came out...... wow, what an innovation! Heh...

The old days....

And as far as "young and beautiful", I was a stud back then....yup....

[SlowCoder]

No, I never saw batchman, or push/pop. Batchman looks like I would have liked it, though. :)

When I say I was almost obsessive about the computer, I mean it. I didn't get good grades in school. School was boring. I knew the work, but couldn't be bothered to do it.

My parents thought it would be a good idea to remove my computer privileges until I got my grades up. They tried a few things, none of which worked, and one of which included locking the keyboard lock. I just fashioned a new key for it and continued on my way. Eventually, when my grades didn't improve, they gave up and gave me the computer. I removed the lock and installed a variable resistor to control the volume of the very loud internal speaker.

[Rogerwilco]

No, I never saw batchman, or push/pop. Batchman looks like I would have liked it, though. :)

When I say I was almost obsessive about the computer, I mean it. I didn't get good grades in school. School was boring. I knew the work, but couldn't be bothered to do it.

My parents thought it would be a good idea to remove my computer privileges until I got my grades up. They tried a few things, none of which worked, and one of which included locking the keyboard lock. I just fashioned a new key for it and continued on my way. Eventually, when my grades didn't improve, they gave up and gave me the computer. I removed the lock and installed a variable resistor to control the volume of the very loud internal speaker.

Heh...Bad Boy!
Like I said before, I was 30 in 79 when i got my first one, so I guess I can't blame computers for my lousy grades in school . . ..

Oh yea....on our friend dosraiderette:
He reminds me of either a politition or one of those so called "activests": Just waits around for someone or something to knock or criticize but doesn't have the b*lls/too scared to contribute...that would be taking a risk at turning the tables....

I feel sorry for those people, actually. Must be tough going through life afraid of your shadow....

Batchman is still around, btw, just google it....

Oh yea, wait a sec....

These'll bring back memories....

http://www.bbsmates.com/default.aspx (Look up all active BBS's)

http://archives.thebbs.org/

This one is way cool....all the old software, available for downloading....

Including....Door Games! Remember those?

http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Chats_and_Forums/Bulletin_Board_System__BBS_/?b=0

Buncha BBS stuff.....

Stupid question: (I did do some research on this, couldn't find anything)

To connect to a BBS using a terminal program, but having a cable modem/internet access....

is it possible? I know you can by a phone service that uses cable internet connections, my Step son has one, but I just wondering if it were possiable to "dial up" a BBS using the above.....

Anyways, you take care

rogerwilco and out

[dosraider]

Hay slowcoder, remember BATCHMAN?

put out by PC Magazine in the...late 80's?

a front end program that enhanced your batch files....

as I recall, it went something like this:


batchman color 15,1
batchman box, 22,11,22,11
batchman locate 25,12,
batchman print Hello out there

Batchman was complete shit compared to the Norton Batch Enhancer.
Be this
Be that
Be something

Damn, now you made me join this complete idiotic topic.

*Runs away*

[SlowCoder]

Oh yea....on our friend dosraiderette:
He reminds me of either a politition or one of those so called "activests": Just waits around for someone or something to knock or criticize but doesn't have the b*lls/too scared to contribute...that would be taking a risk at turning the tables....

Well, no. DOSRaider is a good guy. I just started picking on him because of his *supposed* age, (You never know on the Internet :).) and I think he might be getting back at me. Actually, he kind of reminds me of my crotchity grandfather, who sadly, has passed. And he's not just a drive-by forum junkie. He does contribute to the site.

[Rogerwilco]

Batchman was complete shit compared to the Norton Batch Enhancer.
Be this
Be that
Be something

Damn, now you made me join this complete idiotic topic.

*Runs away*

I would ask you to refrain from typing profanity but but you'd just get your jollies out of it, so I won't.

I've used them both: Norton is better, but not by much.

However batchman has a Big advantage over Norton

BTW, how's your Parents basement?

[Rogerwilco]

Well, no. DOSRaider is a good guy. I just started picking on him because of his *supposed* age, (You never know on the Internet :).) and I think he might be getting back at me. Actually, he kind of reminds me of my crotchity grandfather, who sadly, has passed. And he's not just a drive-by forum junkie. He does contribute to the site.


Nah, he's no crothity grandfather...... he's some celler dweller kid - remember my age, anyone 10 years or more younger is a kid to me - who really doesn't know what it was like back in the DOS days...which is okay, no biggie

you can tell 'cause he has to look stuff up before he "responds" in the negative.... doesn't dare get into it like we do...

but nah, no hard feelings or anything like that....who says I can't pick back?

:)


Hey, do you remember Q-Modem terminal program?

(Yea, raideretter, it was a protocall, but also the name of the aforementioned program...saved you some time there checking it out....More time to do those chores Mommy wants you to do...)

And remember when Z-Modem was the fastest?

Hmmm.... recalling either a language or graphics called Avatar back then - not like what that word is used for now - does that jar any memory cells?

oh, that push/pop stuff was I *think* assembly... never got into that...

[SlowCoder]

I would ask you to refrain from typing profanity but but you'd just get your jollies out of it, so I won't.

BTW, how's your Parents basement?

* Hopes all this is just in the name of fun, and not the beginnings of bashing*
In an attempt to calm, please understand that this is a public forum. We all have the privilege, not the right, to post here. If this thread degrades further, I will voluntarily exit it, never to be seen again. :(

[dosraider]

Don't mind RW's little rant SlowCoder, says a lot about him, not much about me.
:max:

[Rogerwilco]

Don't mind RW's little rant SlowCoder, says a lot about him, not much about me.
:max:

Relax, raiderette, it's all in fun....

okay, here's some little ol' tidbits as my seniel brain comes up for air . . ..

Remember . . . ...

oh... these are still out there...if ya want em, let me know...

LIST??? LIST.COM wow, one of the cream of the DOS utilities back then...text reader to you young folks...had the ability to clone itself if you wanted to change attributes...

SLED.....Simple Little EDitor..... a ton of bells & whistles in a 17k - that's k, not m, folks - package..... like LIST, one file, could clone...


Remember ZOO? Like ZIP and RAR, a compression utility

GREP? Remember that?

Heh..... is this what it's coming to.....old moldy guy here reminicing about the past...

Let it be a lesson to you young folks: The stuff you're currently enjoying at the present will be the retro nostalgia of the future

[WolverineDK]

Rogerwilco and SlowCoder, I believe I can learn a lot from you guys. Heck perhaps I am probably half your age (27) but my first computer was a 4/86 with 240 megabytes of harddrive, 4 megabytes of ram, VGA screen and then it was dos 6. something (and Windows 3.11) . But still I began reading about the old days before that. And began getting an intrest in old hardware and what not, perhaps I can´t program for shit (sorry to all the moderators that I cursed , but other than that then carry on). But I did learn a lot from reading manuals for dos (the DOS cookbook or something like that) . But still your conversation is to me something I think is awesome to read, so please continue :) since to me, I hope I can bring in some joy to the mix, by learning from you guys :)