Anyone using real DOS on contemporary hardware for gaming?

[dipo]

I love DosBox very much and I am also aware of VMDsound and such. But some games didn't run well or sound was flickering.

So I decided to create dual booting on my Pentium 3 - FreeDOS and XP.

Fortunately my PCI soundcard has still DOS drivers including SB16 emulation.

My little experiment works better then I thought. It's funny... If I decide just to play a short DOS game then DOS will boot in like 5 seconds.

Some games are working better then under DosBox, but not all. Some games behave pretty strange. Perhaps just a question of configuration and perhaps impossible.

Anyone interested in this? We could share some experiences.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Some games are working better then under DosBox, but not all. Some games behave pretty strange. Perhaps just a question of configuration and perhaps impossible.
Define "strange".

By the way, FreeDos is not quite perfect yet - if you're aiming for the best compatibility, use DOS 6.22 (downside = no FAT-32 support). The hacked DOS 7.1 that can be found floating around in various places has got FAT-32 support, but suffers from slight compatibility issues as a trade-off.

[dipo]

Define "strange".
Aladdin (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/2/Aladdin.html) starts and runs for a short time with great sound. But after a while it seams like a key in the keyboard is pressed all the time, but it isn't.

Other games hang at random time or don't even start because "to less ram", but in fact it's to much. Even others have messed up graphic.

By the way, FreeDos is not quite perfect yet
You mean in compatibility?

I am not sure anymore why I changed from 6.22 to FreeDOS. But if I remember right it was because FreeDOS was more compatible on contemporary hardware. To bad I don't remember and can't tell you the exact reason.

Perhaps I should try it again.

if you're aiming for the best compatibility
Yes.

use DOS 6.22 (downside = no FAT-32 support).
Yes, only FAT16 maximum 2 GB partition size.

The hacked DOS 7.1 that can be found floating around in various places has got FAT-32 support, but suffers from slight compatibility issues as a trade-off.
I had 7/8 first but changed to 6.22 because of compatibility issues.

[Japo]

I had the exact same setup you describe, except DOS 6.x instead of FreeDOS--a Pentium III with a Sound Blaster PCI 128 with SB16 emulation support. So yes a Pentium III is a perfectly fine DOS platform. However you surely realize that a Pentium III is not "contemporary" hardware any longer, nor a sound card with SB16 support. If you tried this with a slightly newer machine you may have got less satisfactory results.

Don't hold me on this, but the Pentium III may be the latest architecture with good DOS backwards compatibility. I haven't tried on a real setup, but VPC 2007 is appalling at running DOS games, and it appears to emulate a Pentium IV. I've heard that VPC 2004 was better for emulating DOS, and maybe it was because it emulated a previous processor architecture; but I don't really know since I've never installed it.

Anyway I don't really see the point in a real setup if a virtual one does the job. Right now I simply know of no DOS game that DOSBox 0.72 can't run perfectly--granted I don't have so many. But if you think, as apparently many other people, that a real setup will be 100 per cent compatible, or more compatible than DOSBox, just because it's "real", you may be in for surprises. It seems to me that DOSBox is *way* more compatible than a real DOS machine, at least if that's not a very standarized Compaq or HP or etc.

[dipo]

So yes a Pentium III is a perfectly fine DOS platform.
Eh? Really? Thought 486 DX with ISA soundcard is best.

However you surely realize that a Pentium III is not "contemporary" hardware any longer
Well, it's 3 GHZ. Enough for any purpose as a private user (ok, except vista dx10 games).

It's not the hottest with 64 bit and dual/quad/whatever core. But "contemporary" in sense of "made long time after producers cared about dos compatibility".

nor a sound card with SB16 support.
I have a SoundBlaster Live Digital. Some time ago it was really expensive and it was the card professionals made games, music and films. I don't think it's worse now, it has a great 5.1 sound.

Imho soundcards haven't developed much since. (compared with harddisks, cpu and ram) Maybe it's old now and no longer produced but I see no point in a new one.

If you tried this with a slightly newer machine you may have got less satisfactory results.

Don't hold me on this, but the Pentium III may be the latest architecture with good DOS backwards compatibility.

You sure? Only because of 4 GHZ, 64 bit and quad core? Is it really a difference?

The real mode must be still supported because the producers are forced by XP which is still supported and which still needs BIOS / real mode bootstrapping for booting.

I haven't tried on a real setup, but VPC 2007 is appalling at running DOS games, and it appears to emulate a Pentium IV. I've heard that VPC 2004 was better for emulating DOS, and maybe it was because it emulated a previous processor architecture; but I don't really know since I've never installed it.
Well, an virtualizer as reference for pentium 4? I don't think this is a good reference.

Anyway I don't really see the point in a real setup if a virtual one does the job.
In this case I also wouldn't see the point.

Right now I simply know of no DOS game that DOSBox 0.72 can't run perfectly--granted I don't have so many.
I have some where I've already searched a lot and where sound is still flickering.

It seems to me that DOSBox is *way* more compatible than a real DOS machine, at least if that's not a very standarized Compaq or HP or etc.
Yes, I think this is because of support for disney soundsource and gravis ultrasound and ega.

But if you think, as apparently many other people, that a real setup will be 100 per cent compatible, or more compatible than DOSBox, just because it's "real", you may be in for surprises.
No I don't think buying 1 legacy computer for retro gaming would solve all problems at all. Perhaps if you would want to play everything perfect you would need 4-6 different real computers. For each game fulfilling the on the box recommend requirements.

Well, for some games the sound is better. Maybe because it's "nearly real" soundblaster by creative and not emulated soundblaster. Also the speed and look/feel is better.

[Japo]

I can't help the impression that you felt my post tried to contradict something you said and then wrote such a long post to disprove what I didn't say. I didn't say a P3 is "best", I said it's "perfectly fine"--in my experience. And "contemporary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=contemporary)" does not mean "made long time after producers cared about dos compatibility".

When I talked about compatibility I didn't mean Disney nor Gravis nor any other device I haven't used in my life. I mean that DOSBox runs games that I didn't manage to run neither in my P3 nor in my previous DOS machines of yore, for whatever reason that I don't know.

[dipo]

I can't help the impression that you felt my post tried to contradict something you said and then wrote such a long post to disprove what I didn't say. I didn't say a P3 is "best", I said it's "perfectly fine"--in my experience. And "contemporary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=contemporary)" does not mean "made long time after producers cared about dos compatibility".
I see, misunderstanding on my side.

When I talked about compatibility I didn't mean Disney nor Gravis nor any other device I haven't used in my life. I mean that DOSBox runs games that I didn't manage to run neither in my P3 nor in my previous DOS machines of yore, for whatever reason that I don't know.
Ok, got it. And agreed, DosBox is more easy without much configuration and driver fiddling.

[The Fifth Horseman]

You sure? Only because of 4 GHZ, 64 bit and quad core? Is it really a difference?
Multicore and x64 architecture are both quite major changes IMO.

[dipo]

Multicore and x64 architecture are both quite major changes IMO.

Yes, but it has still all old features. So it shouldn't matter?

[Scatty]

I love DosBox very much and I am also aware of VMDsound and such. But some games didn't run well or sound was flickering.

So I decided to create dual booting on my Pentium 3 - FreeDOS and XP.

Fortunately my PCI soundcard has still DOS drivers including SB16 emulation.

My little experiment works better then I thought. It's funny... If I decide just to play a short DOS game then DOS will boot in like 5 seconds.

Some games are working better then under DosBox, but not all. Some games behave pretty strange. Perhaps just a question of configuration and perhaps impossible.

Anyone interested in this? We could share some experiences.
Well that's still not quite the best system for older Ms-Dos and Windows95/98 games.
First of all Pentium III is mostly ok, but 3 Ghz is way too fast, hence the keyboard problem with Aladdin. Lowering the keyboard repeat rate and raising it's repeat delay in Dos (mode con: rate=5 delay=20 or similar, don't quite remember anymore) might help for some longer time, but not forever. 450 Mhz is an absolute maximum on Pentium III for Dos games, faster brings problems. More than 128 MB RAM is also not recommended, 64 is even better and safer.
Windows 95 and Ms-Dos 7 it uses is also perfect for all old Dos and Windows games, I didn't encounter any problems with it compared to Ms-Dos 6.22 whatsoever. Windows 98SE is also good. But Freedos might be worse in terms of compatibility.
And drop Windows XP, you're much better off to use a better computer only for Windows XP and internet and that Pentium III for old Windows95 / Dos games only. That Pentium III is not optimal for it anyway, and you also are forced to have more RAM than old games support without a problem.

Overall a relatively perfect system would be:
Pentium II 400 MHZ or Pentium III 450 MHZ
64 MB RAM, 128 does too
Soundblaster 16 (NOT Vibra, that one is a crap, and not Soundblaster AWE32, it's drivers take up too much conventional memory) with the 16 Bit ISA connection (NOT PCI, that will cause problems with Dos)
A Cirrus Logic graphics card with 2-4MB memory, or other card with same memory like S3 (not Tseng Labs, crap).
An older Ati RAGE with 8MB (not more) or similar 3D accelerator graphics card would do for some Windows 95/98 games too, as long as you have Dos drivers for it or UniVBE 5.1 supports it for VESA-support (often it doesn't though). You can download UniVBE 5.1 for Dos here (ftp://ftp.externet.hu/pub/mirror/sac/graph/uvbe51a.zip).
Windows 95 / Windows 98 SE (98 is worse than 98 SE)

[The Fifth Horseman]

Yes, but it has still all old features. So it shouldn't matter?
Never believe 100% backwards compatibility. It just doesn't happen.

More than 128 MB RAM is also not recommended, 64 is even better and safer.
I know for a fact that certain games bug out at 32.
Personally, I'd say that nobody should build a machine meant to run both DOS and Windows 98 games.

DOS/Windows 95 is a different beast - 200 mHz CPU, 24 MB RAM, a 1 - 2 GB HDD and a 2 MB graphics card will be perfectly fine. Soundblaster 16 or Pro 2 (depends on personal preference)

For Windows 98 I'd recommend somewhere around 128 - 256 MB RAM, 4 - 40 GB HDD (depending on what do you want to install there), and a 500 - 800 mHz CPU. 4 to 8 MB graphics card, and you'll probably want a Voodoo 3D accelerator (or two) in there as well.

[_r.u.s.s.]

dipo- first of all, for the newer processor you'd need a newer motherboard to stick it into. and with newer mother board comes lack of some ports, like ps2 or the old printer thingy, so careful with that. also, if i were you, i'd pick one with ISA port for a sound card.

if you have dual core, the dos will ignore the other core. and 64 bit processors have different addressing, i don't know how would that affect dos. the processor should be compatible with 386 so it can run in protected mode but i dunno, i'm pretty sure programmers did use some tricks wich'd fail at newer architectures. i'd rather pick something between 400mhz-1ghz. and NOT AMD, AMDs sucked back then

[dipo]

First of all Pentium III is mostly ok, but 3 Ghz is way too fast,
Maybe those slowdown programs help?

Well that's still not quite the best system for older Ms-Dos and Windows95/98 games.
450 Mhz is an absolute maximum on Pentium III for Dos games, faster brings problems. More than 128 MB RAM is also not recommended, 64 is even better and safer.
And drop Windows XP, you're much better off to use a better computer only for Windows XP and internet and that Pentium III for old Windows95 / Dos games only. That Pentium III is not optimal for it anyway, and you also are forced to have more RAM than old games support without a problem.
I know that and I don't really want to buy old hardware.

In this thread I asked explicitly if someone takes this challenge on that fast hardware (or even faster one) and wants to share some knowledge.

This was my whole concern I wanted to discuss and not optimal old hardware for DOS. (sorry, but thanks anyway)

Windows 95 and Ms-Dos 7 it uses is also perfect for all old Dos and Windows games, I didn't encounter any problems with it compared to Ms-Dos 6.22 whatsoever. Windows 98SE is also good.
Ok.

But Freedos might be worse in terms of compatibility.
:(

hence the keyboard problem with Aladdin. Lowering the keyboard repeat rate and raising it's repeat delay in Dos (mode con: rate=5 delay=20
Thanks, I will keep this back in mind an try out.

dipo- first of all, for the newer processor you'd need a newer motherboard to stick it into.
Yes.

and with newer mother board comes lack of some ports, like ps2 or the old printer thingy, so careful with that.
Yes and DOS needs ps2. Currently I am using USB to PS2 converters.

But I think PS2 free boards must have all legacy keyboard/mouse support in BIOS?

if you have dual core, the dos will ignore the other
core.
I heard this.

and 64 bit processors have different addressing, i don't know how would that affect dos.
64 bit processors have still real mode, protected mode and additionally long mode. Theoretically (apart from the speed) DOS shouldn't note any difference.

the processor should be compatible with 386 so it can run in protected mode but i dunno,
I think any processor for PC "IBM compatible" needs to be 8086 compatible. Not because of DOS, but because real mode and BIOS calls are still used by modern operating systems for bootstrapping.

i'm pretty sure programmers did use some tricks wich'd fail at newer architectures
Maybe, I am interested...

I remember... One trick them used in past was while(10000) { wait }. On low MHZ this takes let's say for example 5 seconds. On today's CPU's this takes much less then a second. Therefore to much speed means bugs in games.

Don't know if this can be completely resolved by slowdown. Also don't know if there are other issues.

[_r.u.s.s.]

lol of course we are not going to convince you to buy slower cpu, it's your business and problems. we were giving advices based on our personal experiences with problems on faster cpus and older systems

[Japo]

First of all Pentium III is mostly ok, but 3 Ghz is way too fast
True, although I think architecture would be more important than clock rate. I'd (uneducately) guess that clock rate would be the least of your concerns, and slowdown programs such as Moslo would solve it many times. I never got a game running too fast in my P3, true it was 450 MHz, but that's still 20 times as much as the rates those games were intended for. There are some few core features that are kept for compatibility, but each processor series has tons of individual specs. Of course a 3 GHz Pentium IV is not a 3 GHz Pentium III with only a different name.

Even 64 bits processors have a compatibility mode for 32 bits, I would know since my current machine has a 64 bits Pentium D and a 32 bits Windows XP (it's an out of the box Dell desktop!) and works perfectly. But I'd bet I wouldn't get good results turning it into a DOS machine, even if I hacked off the cards without DOS support and installed old ones in slots that the computer doesn't have.

More than 128 MB RAM is also not recommended, 64 is even better and safer.
I agree with Horseman here, games that crash catastrophically at startup with much RAM, then work just fine with less. Keep in mind that under DOS, programs have to address physical memory themselves. I've seen this in DOSBox, and I know I know, but still I wouldn't be surprised if tests on a real machine confirmed it, nor the bit about Pentium III-IV and DOS.

For 3D and such DOS games that need much RAM, keep in mind that they may run fine AND natively in Windows 9x. What in turn runs perfectly fine inside Virtual PC in a XP or Vista host. (Again they may not, like Tomb Raider in Win98SE for me--but it runs perfect in DOSBox.)

Windows 95 and Ms-Dos 7 it uses is also perfect for all old Dos and Windows games, I didn't encounter any problems with it compared to Ms-Dos 6.22 whatsoever. Windows 98SE is also good. But Freedos might be worse in terms of compatibility.
And drop Windows XP, you're much better off to use a better computer only for Windows XP and internet and that Pentium III for old Windows95 / Dos games only. That Pentium III is not optimal for it anyway, and you also are forced to have more RAM than old games support without a problem.

I've said this before, but my experience does say that quite some games run in 6.x but don't in Win9x (at least Win98SE), not even "rebooting in DOS mode" (DOS 7.1)--in the same physical machine. (It might also work the other way around, LOL.)

[_r.u.s.s.]

hey i just found a video about how will some games look like on fast cpu =P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZ3hzwfAic&feature=related

[dosraider]

Would you peeps believe it's always kinda funny to read those statements regarding 'teh ideal dos PC', certainly when I think back at the 808*/286/386/486 era we lived through .......
P2/P3 ideal? Laughing my arse off here.
64 MB RAM? Djees man, we could only dream about having more then 8 MBs on a 386......

:laugh:

[Scatty]

Would you peeps believe it's always kinda funny to read those statements regarding 'teh ideal dos PC', certainly when I think back at the 808*/286/386/486 era we lived through .......
P2/P3 ideal? Laughing my arse off here.
64 MB RAM? Djees man, we could only dream about having more then 8 MBs on a 386......

:laugh:
Try to play Shadows over Riva, Alien Trilogy or System Shock on a 386 SX33 or 486 DX2-66 with 8MB RAM and see how much fun you'll have.

[dosraider]

Wouldn't you all be better to talk about configs for specific games then?
And certainly not talk about a PERFECT DOS CONFIG, because that simply doesn't exist.

Because for every game you mention that won't run on a 286 I can state one that won't run on a P3 .....
Or is it only about the games YOU are interested in? That doesn't make things teh ultimate truth.

Let's start:
Scatty why don't you try to run Corncob3D on a P3, let us know how far you get with that one.

[Scatty]

Remind me to try that out when I have a Pentium III one day again :p
Though to be clear, you're pretty much right that there's no perfect Dos-games computer or a Dos configuration. There is, however, a working middle that covers more games than either of the weak 386/486'er or strong Pentium 3/4'er and better.
Pentium II with 400Mhz is also certainly a better "middle" than a Pentium III with 450Mhz. I had both those systems myself for a period of time and could try out a good variety of Dos games on them, and while the P3 450 was very good, Pentium II 400 was a bit better in few cases regarding Dos-games. But Pentium III with a 8MB Ati Rage3D was better for stronger Windows 95/98 games. Both of them 'did' work with all Dos games I could try on them, through slight fiddles on config.sys and autoexec.bat files sometimes if required, though very little-demanding games like Corncob3D might have been a bit too fast on them.

[dosraider]

...though very little-demanding games like Corncob3D might have been a bit too fast on them.
Forget that 'might', as soon you enter the pentium hardware Corncob3D goes berserk. If I remember swell it even went bersek on a 486 DX4 ..... just to say. And slowdowners won't help there, as it needs full CPU capacity for the enemies AI and enemies actions, use slowdowners and your gaming experience goes completely down the drain.

BTW: the ideal dosgame machine almost exist: dosbox.
As simple as that.
You can run the oldest and latest dosgames on it.
Don't forget what some devs do in the CVS versions with dosbox......

It's extremely rare I fire up my P1 for dosgames, it's almost only in use as ftp server lately...... says enough.

[Edit]
Damnit, I really had sworn not to enter such topics anymore.
Djees man, I hate you all.
:mad:

[Kugerfang]

When dosraider was a kid, all they had was this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Boulier1.JPG

[dosraider]

Close Kuggy, but not close enough.
In fact I started on this:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1535/leihj3.png (http://imageshack.us)
Really, and it makes me feel real old.
:(

[dipo]

I remember now why I wasn't using MS-DOS 7.10.
EMM386 didn't start well because of "can't set page frame address". FreeDOS worked out of the box. This might have me believe that FreeDOS is currently the best less-then-ideal solution for after Windows 98 hardware.

Haven't remembered yet why I didn't continue to use 6.22 after I did choose this first. Maybe it was only because of no FAT32 support but maybe also because of similar issues.

lol of course we are not going to convince you to buy slower cpu, it's your business and problems. we were giving advices based on our personal experiences with problems on faster cpus and older systems
Well, I see it as challenge to use the fastest hardware I currently have. :amused: It's just for fun.

But I'd bet I wouldn't get good results turning it into a DOS machine
Doubt that. Worth a test. At least DOS would start due to BIOS drivers (which MUST work because Windows and Linux still need it.)

Biggest issues for gaming seam CPU/RAM/EGA/VESA and SB16. Everything else is working out of the box, which is very little. :amused:

even if I hacked off the cards without DOS support and installed old ones in slots that the computer doesn't have.
Addon cards are ignored by default. Just without PCI slot you have currently no way of getting SB16 in real DOS.

Keep in mind that under DOS, programs have to address physical memory themselves.
The real mode ones, yes. Much others use EMS, XMS or DOS Extenders.

I've noticed that there are a lot of the 'better programmed games' such as prince of persia 1 and 2. Doesn't seam to matter how fast the CPU is or how many RAM to much. The game runs at normal speed and with perfect sound.

Well and I remembered my original impulsion to force my current computer to play classic dos games in real dos. I was using DOSBox, not that many games didn't run... But often I was told to tweak some settings, like setting down cycles. While playing I was unsure if the game runs now at optimal speed. Well optimal.... Like I was remembering/feeling from past, maybe like the game producers originally indented to.

On real hardware it's obvious. Either it's much to fast/messed up or it's running perfectly.

Btw the keyboard bug was because of keybord + mouse USB support in BIOS. Because I am using PS/2 converter I needed to disable this.

[karooble]

In fact I started on this: (image)
Really, and it makes me feel real old.
:(

What is that, a blackboard?

[dosraider]

Lei en griffel in Dutch, in French: ardoise.
Don't know the English name, maybe 'slate' ?

[Sal]

:laugh: Yes Dos Raider it is called a "Slate" in english because the original ones were like a slate tile in a wooden frame..I used one too at my first school class when I was 5 years old. We used white chalk sticks to write the Alphabet....Sal

BTW Kuger..the abacus in the hands of an expert will beat the socks off an electronic calculator.

[tommyLee]

Just an update on this topic. I spent a few months testing old games in pure dos mode with Dos6.22, Dos7.1 and FreeDos.
I have a core2duo, 4GB RAM and gf9600. I booted the computer into realmode dos with a bootcd filled with around 150 games.
I was amazed and surprised, every single gamed worked perfectly. Dune 2, Alleycat, Return of the Jedi, Speedball 2, Star Trek a final unity, Weird Dreams, F1GP etc.
The oldest part of my machine was a SBLIVE! but the dos drivers worked in all games, even General midi worked and adlib for the older games.
I configured the system to have 624kb conventional memory (with mouse +cdrom +sbeinit).
In terms of compatability.
Dos7.1 all games worked + sound
Dos6.22 - same as above but no fat32 and only 64MB ram is visible to DOS.
FreeDos, - 10 games didn't work(Freedos has some time to go before it is 100% compatible with MS-DOS.

Dos7.1(taken from win98) is as compatible as 6.22. I have never come across a DOS game that has worked on 6.22 but not 7.1 on the same hardware.
From the boot cd I created a 2gb ramdrive and run games from that.
Dos6.22 only has fat16 and can only see 64MB ram. which is not large for ramdisks.
Dos 7.1 apart from fat32, it's himem.sys see's 4GB RAM which is good for hige ramdisks that you can use as a temporary hard drive to copy games from the CD to and run.

[DoomYoshi]

BTW Kuger..the abacus in the hands of an expert will beat the socks off an electronic calculator.

Perhaps you could elaborate on this point. Even an expert abacist would be hard pressed to match the 3d graphing and calculus capabilities of modern calculators. Even regular operations will be performed faster, with more efficiency and higher accuracy on a calculator. The only people who use abaci are those who are too poor to afford calculators or too nostalgic to.

This is like saying: An NES, with an expert programmer, could blow the socks off a Wii. Nostalgic suckers like us want to believe it but it is pure bollywogs.

[Mighty Midget]

Funny thing is, if they get the quantum computer operative, that will be something between an abacus and a modern computer, except they'll be spinning electrons or atoms instead of sliding them.

[dipo]

Just an update on this topic. I spent a few months testing old games in pure dos mode with Dos6.22, Dos7.1 and FreeDos.
I have a core2duo, 4GB RAM and gf9600. I booted the computer into realmode dos with a bootcd filled with around 150 games.
I was amazed and surprised, every single gamed worked perfectly. Dune 2, Alleycat, Return of the Jedi, Speedball 2, Star Trek a final unity, Weird Dreams, F1GP etc.
The oldest part of my machine was a SBLIVE! but the dos drivers worked in all games, even General midi worked and adlib for the older games.
I configured the system to have 624kb conventional memory (with mouse +cdrom +sbeinit).
In terms of compatability.
Dos7.1 all games worked + sound
Dos6.22 - same as above but no fat32 and only 64MB ram is visible to DOS.
FreeDos, - 10 games didn't work(Freedos has some time to go before it is 100% compatible with MS-DOS.

Dos7.1(taken from win98) is as compatible as 6.22. I have never come across a DOS game that has worked on 6.22 but not 7.1 on the same hardware.
From the boot cd I created a 2gb ramdrive and run games from that.
Dos6.22 only has fat16 and can only see 64MB ram. which is not large for ramdisks.
Dos 7.1 apart from fat32, it's himem.sys see's 4GB RAM which is good for hige ramdisks that you can use as a temporary hard drive to copy games from the CD to and run.

Thanks for the report. :thumbs:

I've also spend a lot time with forcing a new computer to do things he isn't made for. Now I got a big FAT32 partition where I multi boot FreeDOS, MS-DOS 7.1 and MS-DOS 8.0.

For sound I am now using also sb live.

Many games are now running better then in DOSBox! :max:

The biggest issue I see with my next computers is that them will not have a PCI slot anymore, which means impossible to get SB16 emulation working.

[sgtboat]

I had someone give me an old 486 system that I use at home for all my old games.. You can usually pick them up for nothing or next to nothing. You would be surprised at the number of these that are sitting in peoples attics forgotten, because they put it there and forgot. If you ask some of your older fiends you might get lucky.

[tikbalang]

aside from games, is use DOS for troubleshooting PC's and as a simple point-of-sale system using dhpos.com.

[red_avatar]

Thanks for the report. :thumbs:

I've also spend a lot time with forcing a new computer to do things he isn't made for. Now I got a big FAT32 partition where I multi boot FreeDOS, MS-DOS 7.1 and MS-DOS 8.0.

For sound I am now using also sb live.

Many games are now running better then in DOSBox! :max:

The biggest issue I see with my next computers is that them will not have a PCI slot anymore, which means impossible to get SB16 emulation working.

Which games are running better than in DOSBOX? Names please ;).

I remember how I had to mess around to get games to work on my PIII 450. The worst trouble came from sound cards like the SB Live. The SB Live is NOT an ISA card and because of that, midi gets emulated and sounds pretty terrible. DOSBOX comes about as close as you can get to the original sound which is why I prefer it by far to my old retro PC.

There's many other problems which you neglected to mention:

- speed issues (Theme Park, Magic Carpet, Syndicate Wars, etc. - they all run WAY too fast)

- the detection of memory & hard drive space which goes beyond what the game expects. 16+MB memory make games crash on start up and several games refuse to install because they read a negative free space. There's no way to fix this in real DOS. Dosbox lets you do this in a second

- sound emulation: some games really didn't like the SB Live Legacy drivers and simply refused to work properly. DOSBOX supports SB Pro 1&2 and several other soundcards to fall back on in emergences.

- games that refuse to run with EMS: needs config.sys editing & rebooting. In DOSBOX this is a simple setting and with a front end = no problem ;)

- mouse speed: I had this problem quite a lot in DOS. The mouse speed was not optimal and I had to download separate software to make it to work.

- VESA card incompatibility: a BIG problem with older games. Especially with Windows 3.1 it was a nightmare to get proper drivers to work with my Nvidia graphics card. ATI cards don't have any working drivers at all and many VESA games will refuse to run properly.

There's dozens more problems but I sure know what I'd prefer to use. I got a retro PC set up to run authentic DOS games but since Dosbox has been perfected where it runs 99% of all games perfectly, I rarely need it anymore.

[_r.u.s.s.]

well you have to admit that on slower computers, some more complicated games would run definitely faster. and there are probably not all "tricks" used by games tweaked out yet. of course, most games would run better in dosbox (on modern pcs), but not all

[AlumiuN]

well you have to admit that on slower computers, some more complicated games would run definitely faster. and there are probably not all "tricks" used by games tweaked out yet. of course, most games would run better in dosbox (on modern pcs), but not all

Wrath Of Earth being one of these - in Dosbox, I've never been able to get the sound to work right, and sometimes the HUD screws up. It works nicely on my 486SL-25 laptop, except that the dynamic HUD colours look kinda weird and I only have a PC speaker, so the sound doesn't work. :) I guess that's what happens when you code an entire game in Assembler. :D

[bertoche]

Well, best point I see to run games on real dos is very strong: midi wavetables. Old Midi sounds all way different than today's does. Play Sim City, 2000 LBA(Relentless) or any other game with really great midi music from a win95 platform and you'll see my point. I think Soundblasters guys hasn't changed a lot their midi, but even with their soundboards, music isn't the same.

Got to config a PIII 486Mhz to run some games with native DOS from win98. Nice Experience. Long hours of Transport Tycoon.

My DOSBox frequently crashes when I run other tasks with heavy processment, or even not so heavy, like Firefox or screensavers. Ok, it runs 99,9% games, and I don't think it's possible to run, e. g. Lotus in DOS 6, and you'll not have to worry about sound drivers, mouse drivers, hi memory, conventional memory, EMS memory, EMM386, fat, dos mixers, Config.sys, Autoexec.bat, system.ini ... That's why I won't stop using DOSBox. Yet, need to get a good old machine to run some games that deserve it.

[marko river]

Still got old Pentium 100MHz... Playing Jagged Alliance, Quake more or less frequently, and rarely Master of Magic, Warcraft and few more... I have Civ2 and Pizza Tycoon but i don't dare to try them, i'll get hooked up again....

[BlueBMW]

For my old school needs I use the following...

Dosbox on a modern quad core rig.
Dos 6.22 original factory install on a Gateway P5-90 :3:
Win 98SE on a P2 400mhz (for the few Win 95/98 games that wont work right on XP)


I find that almost everything runs perfect in Dosbox anymore, so I dont use the dedicated machine as much. But its good to keep around for the rare few that just wont work.