Troubles running many games, pure dos.

[ashhash]

Hey all

Great site first off, a source of joy and unfortunately much frustration too.

Ive built up an old DOS box, the oldest gear I could easily acquire was;

PIII-450
Geforce2
SB PCI 128
512Mb SDRAM.
98SE

I'm having trouble running many games, some report not enough memory (Krondor), some say VGA not detected and only run in EGA (Hostage), other sound does not work (most!)

Can anyone offer hints on DOS setup for gaming?
I'm especially interested in Autoexec.bat and Config.sys setup.

If need be I will source older hardware.
Bugs me that I ditched all my old gear somewhere along the "upgrade" path..;p(

Cheers!
Ash

[Scatty]

Well, that's a long subject. I can just give you few hints as to what hardware would be better for Dos games than the one you have.
- Pentium (1) 100 - optimal, all speed for most later Dos games, still slow enough for older ones.
- 24-48 MB PS2 RAM, EDO-RAM not recommended since it's a bit unstable, at least it was in my cases.
- older 1-2 MB graphic card, like Cirrus Logic or S3 Trio V64+ (Trident or Avance Logic not recommended)
- Sound Blaster 16 (any model) - great default sound card for all games, all support it in one or another way (Sound Blaster AWE32 not recommended since it's drivers take up much conventional memory)
- Windows 95 - you can always quit and go to Dos, and there are some games that're made for Win95


Autoexec.bat and config.sys are a little bit more tricky, and usually depend on what you have on your computer - hardware, software, so clear tips can't be given, but generally these lines are useful:

config.sys
device=himem.sys (the one in Windows folder is better than the one in Dos-folder)
device=emm386.exe RAM (same as himem.sys, use one from win-folder)
dos=high,umb
files=30 (more not really useful, and takes up precious conventional memory)
devicehigh=(rest of the drivers)
autoexec.bat though really depends on your computer, but try to put the lh before everything that looks like a program, and sometimes it helps to use device in config.sys instead of devicehigh while using lh in autoexec.bat, or use devicehigh in config.sys while omit lh for some programs in autoexec.bat, to press out the maximum amount of conventional memory. Experiment and see.

[nedela]

You might have to put a bit of effort to get the stuff in upper memory.

especially if the game really needs a lot from the basic 640kB

It also depends on the type of memory these games require. there are EMS and XMS. and you can also give command to reserve only part of memorry as EMS.

as for the graphics card - you might need some basic dos drivers for it to be propperly recognised. the cyruss logic we had at home had them. maybe there are some generic ones, although it's a bit strange the WIN98 didn't put them in...

i think abandonia boot disk is quite usefull on such a maschine.

oh and remembe that from time to time you will need moslo to make the game work. the game might give memory errors simply because it's running too fast.

but you are good for later games such as all those fancy dos "3D" ones. and with win98 you can run zdoom as well (for some impoved doom graphics). maybe even Jdoom for osme cool openGL in doom.

as for any specific games that need tweaking you can follow most DOSbox instructions on site (except that mounting is not necessary).



A word of advice when posting in troubleshooting - it will be easier to get help if oyu write down the exact errorr messages. you might even want to google them and find the answer like that even faster.

[Scatty]

as for the graphics card - you might need some basic dos drivers for it to be propperly recognised.
You can also just download Univbe 5.1 here (http://www.agiusa.com/files/pub/resix-sw.shtml) (univbe51.zip) and install / register it (view univbe.exe with a hex-editor and search for BADE to find the registration code, the third in the row is the best), which will enable VESA 2.0 support for that graphics card in Dos. Most Dos games will recognize VESA and run then without any further complications.
If this version of Univbe won't recognize the GForce 2 card (it probably won't), try using version 6.7 from here (http://www.scitechsoft.com/ftp/sdd/) instead, or SciTech Display Doctor (same folder).

[The Fifth Horseman]

For me, that would be:
- 486 DX4/100 to Pentium 133 Depending on what you can get, really. Won't make much difference, and you'll still have to use slowdown utilities for some older games.
- 8 to 32 MB RAM, EDO chips if you can acquire any EDO memory has about 5% greater speed than that of regular SIMM modules and outpaces regular DIMM memory on FSB speeds up to 80 mHz. 8 MB is usually more than enough for most DOS games you can run on this setup, and going over 16 may only have sense if you want to use the machine for Windows gaming as well. Note that some games (eg Space Hulk) may refuse to run on systems with over 24 MB of RAM.
- 1 MB graphics card would be absolutely sufficient for DOS gaming, and more than adequate for most Windows games you can run on that setup. For the few where it's not enough for smooth graphics (and smoother video playback), a 4 or 8 MB card should be easy to find.
- ESS 1688 soundcard Sound Blaster Pro compatible, and all in all a great card. Not neccesarily the best one out there, but popular enough to be easy to find if you can't find an actual Sound Blaster 16 like Scatty suggested
- 512 KB cache Many of old motherboards offered some way to increase the amount of available cache memory - the default was usually 128 to 256 KB, with some motherboards supporting up to 1 MB. 512 KB will give the system a nice boost of speed, especially if you run Windows on it.
- Windows 95 OSR 2. It's better than plain W95, since it has FAT32 support and some rudimentary USB compatibility. Windows 98 is an option, but you need at least 32 MB of RAM for it to run at any acceptable speed.

Regarding sources for old hardware... look at eBay or nearby garage sales. You can find great pieces going for ridiculously low prices there.

[Scatty]

- 486 DX4/100 to Pentium 133 Depending on what you can get, really. Won't make much difference, and you'll still have to use slowdown utilities for some older games.
486 DX4-100 would be too slow for some later games though, like Quake, Shadow Warrior or Dungeon Keeper, hence the Pentium 100 might be a better option since they run a lot better on it. Anything faster than that would be too fast for some games, though, like Wizardry VII - Crusaders of the Dark Savant or Realms of Arkannia - Blade of Destiny.

[The Fifth Horseman]

I've been running Quake on a DX4/100 without any problems.
If the machine is too fast for something, slowdown utilities like Mo'Slo are always an option. Games like Space Crusade, Mechwarrior, Robocop or Robocop 3 all needed a 100 mHz system to be slowed down to about 20-30 mHz to run at a playable speed.

[Japo]

A Pentium III 450 MHz is fine, I would know, I installed DOS 6.22 in one and none of my games ran too fast. (And if some ancient one does just use Mo'Slo like FH said.)

You want to use Windows 98? If that computer is just for old games, I'd go for DOS 6 instead. If you ask me DOSBox is more compatible than anything, but DOS 6 is certainly better than Windows 98 for old games. There are some that won't run in Windows 98 even "restarting in DOS mode" (DOS 7).

Your sound card is also all right (again the same I had) even in DOS, because it includes a Sound Blaster 16 emulation feature for the sake of backwards compatibility. You should have the necessary drivers in a CD, they're the same that Win98 loads when "restarting in DOS mode". I have them anyway in case you can't find them, also I think they can be downloaded maybe even at Creative's website.

[ashhash]

Thanks for all the replies.

Im surprised that DOS 7 /98 is an issue, ive only got 98 loaded for ease of file management (and had disks lying around)
I boot to DOS first and only load Win if needed.

Ive dug up an old 64V+ and SB16 will will try that and see how I go!

Thanks
Ash

[ashhash]

Oh on DOSBox too, I dont find it to work well at all.
50% of the games ive downloaded dont run.
I am running it under Vista though which may be the problem. ;p(

[Scatty]

Well Vista is always a problem, and is good to get rid of, but DosBox also requires at least a Pentium III with 1.5Ghz for acceptable emulation speed. So if your computer is somewhere close to it you would want to get a much faster PC than that, like Pentium 4 with 2.8Ghz or even better for some stronger games.

[ashhash]

Yeah ive got a Core2 Duo 1.8Ghz, 2Gb RAM, ATI Graphics.. yet even basic games wont run.
Anyway thats my reason for the DOS system..;p)
Ill report back!

[Japo]

Most games work with DOSBox (see here (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/comp_list.php?letter=a)), what I don't know is whether there are some issues for DOSBox to run in Vista. Even in that case I guess the devs will fix those in coming versions of DOSBox.

[dosraider]

... what I don't know is whether there are some issues for DOSBox to run in Vista. Even in that case I guess the devs will fix those in coming versions of DOSBox.
Dosbox 0.72 runs flawless in Vista32 and Vista64.
Only thing is you better stay in your own documents folder.
Further on there is no difference running dosbox in XP or Vista.

Of course if you have an underpowered PC and Vista crawls on it don't expect that dosbox will run smoothly. But same goes for DBox in XP.

[Japo]

Maybe he just has to mess with the appropriate DOS settings (EMS, loadfix...) for each game.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Yeah ive got a Core2 Duo 1.8Ghz, 2Gb RAM, ATI Graphics.. yet even basic games wont run.
Sempron 2500+ @ 1,75 gHz, 1 GB RAM, Windows XP here. While not everything is super-fast, most games in DOSBox run at acceptable speeds.

[Eagle of Fire]

How to configure DOS for gaming (http://www.abandonia.com/vbullet/showthread.php?t=6991)...